Total Seal rings!

[ForceFed Wraith]

I just got off the phone with the Seal Power rep. They say that pressure builds up between the first and second ring if they're both gapless and then will accelerate the wear and have a ton of blow-by, thus defeating the purpose of the gapless rings.

He also said that there is no specific procedure to bore and hone the block for a gapless ring. Although for our application, he said to use a 280 grit honing stone, but he didn't explain why.

BTW, where can I order these online? I might just pull the head and oil pan off, use an Auto-Zone honer, re-hone the block if needed and try these rings. If I see results as expected, I will use these in the 16 valve motor

[turbovanman]

Check this thread, someone on here sells them otherwise ask them, theres only a few stores that sell them.

REally on the hone. I got specific instructions and I phoned them and I had to follow them to the letter. The cross hatch is specifed as the hone at 280 like you. You use there lube or WD40 to assemble.

[puppet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman It depends on the application. At first, he had me with reg top ring, then gapless 2nd.

Since our top rings take so much heat wouldn't the second ring would be the best choice?
What was his thinking on changing to a gapless top for you instead?

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puppet Since our top rings take so much heat wouldn't the second ring would be the best choice? What was his thinking on changing to a gapless top for you instead?

Honestly, can't tell you. He was mumbling then you could hear him tapping away on his computer after I made sure to tell him that is was turbocharged and will be running high boost but it is a daily driver.

[puppet]

... uh-oh.

[Putter]

I was thinking if I ever build a real engine, I would use a chrome top ring and gapless second, as the chrome ring will take some serious abuse/heat while the pressure that gets by it will be more than enough to seal the second ring, Remember,! combustion pressure seals the rings on the wall, the tension only is there to keep them touching. Thats why in some drag cars you see gas holes in the piston, drilled from the piston top to down behind the top ring, to help combustion pressure get there sooner and seal the ringer sooner and harder. If you use a gapless top ring, and they really perform as well as advertised, a low tension or no bottom ring seems like it would be the next best thing to do, as it may not be doing much more than scraping whats left of the oil.....of course in a street motor, i think i woudl always run a full ring package, oil consumption is annoying.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puppet ... uh-oh.

What?

[puppet]

Did he send you two sets of rings .. one for the high booster and another for the dd?
j/k ... just made me chuckle when you said you could hear him pounding the keys looking for the right combination. ... your van's a TS testing lab.

I don't know ... everyone I ever saw run these used them in the 2nd slot. Being the more expensive ring in the set. ... of course the cheap Pollacks I hang with were probably just hedging their bets.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puppet Did he send you two sets of rings .. one for the high booster and another for the dd? j/k ... just made me chuckle when you said you could hear him pounding the keys looking for the right combination. ... your van's a TS testing lab. I don't know ... everyone I ever saw run these used them in the 2nd slot. Being the more expensive ring in the set. ... of course the cheap Pollacks I hang with were probably just hedging their bets.

Probably,
But will find out in a month or so what happens. Just waiting my block prep and my other goodies.

[unclejemima]

anyone know what kind of hp you would expect with same boost, engine, ext. with gaped and gapless rings? Are we talking like 5hp or so?
-mark

[turbovanman]

All I remember is Car Craft or Hot Rod had an N/A small block Chevy. They ran it with reg rings and it had like 8-10% leak down, can't remember the HP. Then they put Total Seal in and broke it in, did the dyno runs to simulate some wear and tear, less than 2% leak down and picked up like 20hp. I will try to find the article.

[ForceFed Wraith]

For about $20 more than regular rings, thats almost 1 hp per dollar ... doesn't get better than that.

[Putter]

I would think that they would have larger effects on lower-rpm engines where the piston is acted on for a longer duration.......but maybe i'm just full of theory, or .... you get the idea

[Mr P-body]

I am a Total Seal Distributer If anyone needs them...

Gapless Top Ring set $ 170.00

Gapless 2nd Ring set $ 120.00

Std. Ductile Iron set $ 66.00

Available in std. , .020, .030, .040 oversize

Pm if any one needs a set...Thanks Guys


~ Mike
Turbo Dynamx, Inc.
1-248-249-5983

[chrisn]

car craft Jan. 03. they tested normal, pre gapped rings, file fit rings, and total seal gapless top rings.

Pre gapped:

peak hp: 434.7 @ 5700rpm
peak tq: 450 @ 4400
Avg. hp: 363.3
Avg. tq: 425.6
CC: 160psi

File fit:

peak hp: 441 @ 5700
peak tq: 459.2 @ 4500
Avg. hp: 370
Avg. tq: 433.9
CC: 165psi

Gapless top:

peak hp: 451 @5600
peak tq: 465 @ 4500
Avg. hp: 375
Avg. tq: 440
CC: 185psi