Total Seal rings!

[turbovanman]

Thanks, I was 10hp off, lol! but you get the idea. Now add a few miles and Total Seal will hold the power level and the reg rings will taper off.

[Timmay2]

They are great rings, but i wouldnt tear a motor apart just to replace the rings to see the difference. too many variables.

the 10hp you pick up afterwards could be because you honed the block and gave it a fresh wall to seal against, so of course they will seal better- stock would seal better after a fresh hone too. if you just throw them in without a hone, especially their file fit rings, then they wont seal as good as they should, meaning you just wasted money..

unless of course it was just honed/rebuilt not too long ago, then it may be comparable.. but then why would you want to replace the things then.?

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmay2 They are great rings, but i wouldnt tear a motor apart just to replace the rings to see the difference. too many variables. the 10hp you pick up afterwards could be because you honed the block and gave it a fresh wall to seal against, so of course they will seal better- stock would seal better after a fresh hone too. if you just throw them in without a hone, especially their file fit rings, then they wont seal as good as they should, meaning you just wasted money.. unless of course it was just honed/rebuilt not too long ago, then it may be comparable.. but then why would you want to replace the things then.?

I agree but if your rebuilding like I am, why not!

They tested the rings as such so they had comparable mileage or wear so that way, its an even test! I think they did X amount of pulls or time, whatever so they were all equal!

[Timmay2]

Yep.. not arguing that, i was just stating if someone were to go pull their stock engine apart and re hone it and re ring with total seal and credit the rings for all the power.. thatd be nuts.

If its already apart and being rebuilt, might as well use the best.

[Turbo SOB]

Was the question of top ring vs. second ring answered? I can see arguements for both.

For the top ring as gapless:
You do not need to run a second ring (unless required by racing regulations), which reduces drag and wear and tear.

For the second ring as gapless:
Reduces the ring's exposure to heat, and being able to run a low tension moly ring at the top might help seal the whole works better (for the reasons previously stated in this thread), possibly increasing performance?

Concerns:
For the top ring as gapless:
Can the Total Seal Gapless handle just as much heat as a regular ring?

For the second ring as gapless:
It is mentioned that there could be gas trapped between the rings if two sets of Total Seals Gapless are used, would a low tension moly top ring still have this issue?

Other questions:
Do you still need to run oil rings?
Do the gapless rings still benefit from a torque plated hone?

And ultimately:
Which is better, which produces more power? It was mentioned that there are specific applications that would benefit from each, but that these differences were lost in mumble land. Did anyone ever get the full story?

Thanks,
Jeff

[RSTURBO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybermrc I ran the gapless ring the first time I built my 2.2L. I gapped them per Total Seal's specs. Never had any oil burning issues what so ever. I checked my compression, and I was surprised to see ~180-185 psi across the board. FWIW, I used Total Seal's regular rings the 2nd time around, and I have about 170-175 psi on all cylinders now. On both ring styles times, I have approx. 19-20" Hg vac. at idle, and ~24-25" on decel.

Simon I have the same Pistons and rings in my car right now. It only have 1100 Miles on te engine we did a Compression test and it came up 178-181 all across. I burn no oil at all and my HG is 19-20 and my Decel hg is also 24-27.

Also with the JE's too the run very quiet, well for these angine's it's also a 2.2 so I don't know how much of a help this info will be. Next car I get when it's rebuilt I'll defininatly go with Je's and Total seals again

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSTURBO Simon I have the same Pistons and rings in my car right now. It only have 1100 Miles on te engine we did a Compression test and it came up 178-181 all across. I burn no oil at all and my HG is 19-20 and my Decel hg is also 24-27. Also with the JE's too the run very quiet, well for these angine's it's also a 2.2 so I don't know how much of a help this info will be. Next car I get when it's rebuilt I'll defininatly go with Je's and Total seals again

Awesome, thanks for the info, hopefully next week I can have mine running and see what they do,

BTW, what did you do about valve seals?

[John B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSTURBO Simon I have the same Pistons and rings in my car right now. It only have 1100 Miles on te engine we did a Compression test and it came up 178-181 all across. I burn no oil at all and my HG is 19-20 and my Decel hg is also 24-27.

What final finish (stone grit) were your cylinders done at for the Total Seal rings? Was the start up with dry rings or lubed?

[turbovanman]

I can't remember, its at work in the box but you get instructions on everything and you even get some British style rock candy!

[John B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman I want low 13's.

You want low 10's; you expect low 13's...

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John B You want low 10's; you expect low 13's...

Thats old hat now, I am going for low to mid 12's,

[MVaughn]

Just curious on the mileage on the motor and any oil issues. I myself used them and will not use them again. I had a problem with it using oil. My buddy had the same thing happen and both of us are very detail oriented about motor prep. ect. We used a different machine shop as well. I put the Sealed power rings in and it hasn't used a drop since. This was about four five years ago so maybe something has changed in the oil tension ring area.

[Putter]

I'm curious to how well over the overlap holds up to detonation.

[Aries_Turbo]

i think this was brought up when Menegon was talking about them and that they needed a special honing procedure. Warren said that above as well. With that said, I just use standard file fit rings and Im satisfied with that.

Brian

[The Pope]

I asked about them at the machine shop and they mentioned they cause a failure. They hold in heat and the top ring takes the full force of each hit. The standard type seams to live longer. On detonated engines look at the top ring, you'll notice that it has shrunk smaller than the lower ring and smaller than the cylinder. My engine uses file fit rings. They are filed till they almost touch. They are total thickness the whole way, the gapless type are real thin where they overlap. Thin melts faster.

I don't know,,,,,, maybe they will work fine. But it has been a white faced bug eye'd "don't use those" at the machine shop.