Block cleaning and machining

[crazyace]

Be sure not to just clean out the oil pump pick-up. A new one is only about $20 at most machine shops. Just remember that while you are doing this job to check everything at least twice and get yourself a game plan A.S.A.P. By the way, how much are you planning on turning up the boost on this engine?

[Koreth]

how much boost? good question. Possible to get 20psi out of a stock garrett? That's something I'll have to ask in the Turbo forum. Got batteries for my digital camera, pics en route.

Why would I not want to simply have the picup hot-tanked? Is there something that happens when the picup is cleaned or used that makes it not usable again? I would like to re-use my pickup, because that way I wouldn't have to get a new oil pan and I'd be able to have an extra quart of oil.

I decided to to a full rebuild. Taking pictures of the piston tops and bores I realized that I could not see the hone as well as I had initially thought. As for a game plan, here is what I have in mind.You guys can help me tweak it.

I can check the clearances with plastigauge while the engine is on the stand. I'll do that, then I'll be able to tell if the block simply needs a cleaning and a hone (and new rings for the pistons at least) or if I need to have the crank ground and oversize bearings installed. The crank will go to a shop here in Denver that specializes in crankshafts (Colorado Crankshaft is their name I believe), where it will be cleaned, and the journals inspected for roundness and polished, or ground and polished if necessary. If I have the extra money I'll have it knife-edged and balanced too. The block will go to the regular machine shop where it will be hot-tanked and inspected. I'll have them inspect the bores for taper, and out-of-roundness and inspect the deck for warpage? Anything else I should have inspected after it is cleaned? If need be' I'll have the bores bored .020 over(or is it .20 over? I forget). If the bores need rebored, I'll have an excuse for forged pistons. Wanting to run 20 psi at the track, I may just get new pistons anyway. We'll see what what kind of condition the bores are in first. If I get forged slugs, I'll get weiscos from TU.

What else would need to be done after this? Keep in mind that the shop only does machine work, no assembly. (hopefuly I'll save a bit in labor fees this way.) I can assemble the shortblock myself, I'll simply have to be very careful about doing it an a clean environment. After that, I should have a short block that is not only ready for what I hope to thow at it this season, but will be able to take the abuse from subsequent and progressivly harsher seasons as well.

Working on a page for all the pics I took while tearing it down this far.

[Una]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koreth how much boost? good question. Possible to get 20psi out of a stock garrett? That's something I'll have to ask in the Turbo forum.

Heck yeah, as long as you have a big wastegate can. I'm getting 25+ out of my T1 Garrett.

[turbovanman]

Good game plan. You can do it yourself, the hardest part would be installing the rings on the pistons and installing the pistons in the block. Many a rings has been damaged and broken by clumsy hands. You will need a piston ring compressor. Also feeler gauges to check the ring clearance.

[Koreth]

ring clearence in the grooves on the piston or clearence between the rings and the cyl walls?

[turbovanman]

End gap, when rings are installed solo in the bore, you measure the end gap.

[Koreth]

So you install the rings solo in the bore first (minus or including the oil ring?) and meausure the gaps with the feeler guages the use a ring file (I have one somewhere...) to file the gap till it is within spec. Then the rings are installed on the pistons and a ring compresser is used to squeeze the rings tight so they fit in the bore without getting dinged up or broken. Anything else I should be thinking of, or doing?

[Una]

This is why I paid my machine shop to assemble my bottom end for me. It's easy enough to take apart, but getting the bearings just right, not breaking the rings and getting them just right, along with getting the honing just right.. Not to mention keeping things REALLY clean.. It was sooo worth it to me to just have them do it.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koreth So you install the rings solo in the bore first (minus or including the oil ring?) and meausure the gaps with the feeler guages the use a ring file (I have one somewhere...) to file the gap till it is within spec. Then the rings are installed on the pistons and a ring compresser is used to squeeze the rings tight so they fit in the bore without getting dinged up or broken. Anything else I should be thinking of, or doing?

Correct, but its doubtful you will need to file the rings unless you buy file-fit rings. Usually the gap is too big, lol!
I have never checked the oil rings but I guess you could.

[mo' parts]

on high boost motors, say 20+ psi, it is a good idea to run larger ring gaps to keep them from butting together and breaking lands. .20-.18 should be fine(i ran .19 and .17 on my last motor, pushing 145 psi compression) though i believe ken and others are running larger gaps.
unless yor like turbovanman and are going to run gapless rings
just be sure to use a piston to slide the ring down in the bore, so that it is square in the bore when checking the gaps.

[crazyace]

The reason for not just cleaning a pick-up is because you do not want to be the one who has something only get loosened and not removed.It is impossible to garauntee that everything is out it. I have been a Tech for quite some time now and have seen a few times when someone wished after all was said and done, that they would have just spent that $20 to save a $1000 engine that ate a bearing shortly after fire up. I just spent $1400 on my new long block with me doing the assembly and there is no way in gods great creation I would ever consider letting a used pick-up go in it. That is almost as bad as getting the bottom end rebuilt and not getting the head reman'd while you are at it. It is nonsense. Also be sure to check piston to cylinder wall clearance as well. Even if you trust a machine shop very much they can still make mistakes since they are all human like us. If you want it to last check every clearance at least twice for your own sanity.

[Koreth]

New question: Honing, what is it, what does it do, why is it necessary? From what I can see it is crossways scraches on the cyl walls, but I cannot think for the life of me why that would be desireable.

[Koreth]

ttt

[slothman]

Honing is for proper break in of your rings.

[beyond_audio]

those cross scrathes help the rings seal.