Block cleaning and machining

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slothman Honing is for proper break in of your rings.

I would have agreed with you but a few members on here don't hone and have no issues with ring seal.

[Koreth]

How? How do scrached up cyl walls help rings seal?

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koreth How? How do scrached up cyl walls help rings seal?

The theory is rings are not 100% smooth when new,the ring surface looks like little mountain peaks, so they need a slightly roughed up bore-another bunch of mountain peaks, then when you run them, they "mate" together and create the seal.

A few members don't hone and just throw new rings in and have no issues. I am not brave enough to try that.

[puppet]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Here's a good article that touches on this subject.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puppet http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm Here's a good article that touches on this subject.

Yep, I've broken in all my engines and customer engines like that for years, never had an issue once,

[85glht]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koreth There is the risk that if it takes too long, I might miss registration and tech inspections for this season, which would suck. I know how sturdy these engines are, should I be okay if I keep my fluids up? The guy I bought the engine from said it was running strong when it was pulled, Though I take that with a grain of salt, because there WAS all that sludge in the pan.

The tracks tech cars at the begining of every race day/ test and tune session. So don't worry about not making the beginning of the season. Take you time to do it right. It will pay for itself in the long run.

[turbovanman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koreth
There is the risk that if it takes too long, I might miss registration and tech inspections for this season, which would suck. I know how sturdy these engines are, should I be okay if I keep my fluids up? The guy I bought the engine from said it was running strong when it was pulled, Though I take that with a grain of salt, because there WAS all that sludge in the pan.

If I had a dollar everytime I heard that, I would be a millionare. Sure its good, just use it go, yeah, right, as a rod is hanging out the side. Don't just put it in, go thru it, its easier now than in the middle of somewhere when a bearing or whatever lets go.

[Koreth]

I posted that my opening post of this thread. I've already decided to a full out rebuild, and now I'm being cautioned against just dropping the engine in?

It's sitting half-disassembled in my garage on the engine stand protected by a yard bag, with all the oil varnish showing on the internals, and all the scale in the water passages showing through the ports on the deck. I wouldn't put it in knowing what I do now unless I was stoned or something.

[macncheese]

lol, glad to see you made the right decision! am i the only person here who checks clearance on my crankshaft journals in a position, then lifts it out and drops it in 90* around and checks again? i'm really paranoid about it being out of round... also, i write down all my clearances, then check them again against the paper, so the crank journals, for instance, got checked 4 times on my last build. of course, this one has been running superbly for 15000 miles, no odd noises, and my first engine (before i got anal about clearance) lasted 600 miles.
tony

[Koreth]

How far down should I strip the short block before sending it to the machine shop for work? I have the pan and head off, and I am guessing I should remove all the water pump, mount bracket, flexplate (aready off) any pullies, oil and coolant lines for the turbo. and any miselaneous bolts. Am I forgetting anything? Should I disassemble EVERYTHING and then ship the bareblock and its (disassembled) internals to the shop to save the shop some time and effort cleaning and inspecting the whole mess?

[mo' parts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koreth How far down should I strip the short block before sending it to the machine shop for work? I have the pan and head off, and I am guessing I should remove all the water pump, mount bracket, flexplate (aready off) any pullies, oil and coolant lines for the turbo. and any miselaneous bolts. Am I forgetting anything? Should I disassemble EVERYTHING and then ship the bareblock and its (disassembled) internals to the shop to save the shop some time and effort cleaning and inspecting the whole mess?

might save yourself a few bucks that way.
i strip mine down bare(cept the front crank seal and gear, dont have a puller for that yet) this way there is less to be misplaced at the shop

[turbovanman]

Yep, strip it down but reinstall the main caps, they need them in when they bore it out. If you are nice, torque them to spec. The less they have to do, the cheaper it is for you. I would also remove the pistons from the rods, I know its easy but they will charge you if you don't do it. Depending on what yuor doing, send them the block, crank, rods.

[Koreth]

Is it necessary to have the mains align-bored if they are within spec, not out-of round, etc. or is it a given that they will be? Will I need to use oversize bearings if I do? Everthing is to be cleaned, the crank polished and if necesissary ground. The rods will be cleaned, but I don't what kind of stuff does/should be done to them. I've heard of shot peening, not sure what this is or what it does, but I've heard it makes the rods stronger. I've heard of re-sizing the big ends and smal ends, don't know anything about that either. And the block will have what work is necessary on the cylinders (bore and/or hone) and the deck will be checked for squareness and milled a few thousandths if necessary.

New newbie question. Will hot tanking remove rust and scale and the like? there seems to be plenty of that kind of stuff built up in the water jackets from what I can see through the ports in the deck.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koreth Is it necessary to have the mains align-bored if they are within spec, not out-of round, etc. or is it a given that they will be? Will I need to use oversize bearings if I do? Everthing is to be cleaned, the crank polished and if necesissary ground. The rods will be cleaned, but I don't what kind of stuff does/should be done to them. I've heard of shot peening, not sure what this is or what it does, but I've heard it makes the rods stronger. I've heard of re-sizing the big ends and smal ends, don't know anything about that either. And the block will have what work is necessary on the cylinders (bore and/or hone) and the deck will be checked for squareness and milled a few thousandths if necessary. New newbie question. Will hot tanking remove rust and scale and the like? there seems to be plenty of that kind of stuff built up in the water jackets from what I can see through the ports in the deck.

If your bearings came out ok, then a having an align hone is unneccessary. The only time you need oversize bearings is if you have your crank machined undersize. The reason I told you to put the mains caps on is it twists the block and loads it up so you get a straighter new bore. The machine shop will check out the block and tell you what you need but usually, getting it decked is cheap insurance and you get a nice flat, fresh head gasket surface.
Rod, you should have them resized, the bottom end, they grind the cap flange then ream them back to size on the rod. The small end, they put a new bushing in and ream to spec. You can have them shot peened and polished, makes them stronger and reduces places for stress cracks to happen but its not totally necessary.
Hot tanking removes alot of scale, dirt etc but not everything, depends on how bad or dirty it is. One caveat is if you have it hot tanked, the intermediate shaft bearings will need to be replaced.

Hope this helps.

[Koreth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman Hot tanking removes alot of scale, dirt etc but not everything, depends on how bad or dirty it is. One caveat is if you have it hot tanked, the intermediate shaft bearings will need to be replaced. Hope this helps.

Okay. Well, since I was planning a complete disassembly of the shortblock that would include removing the intermediate shaft as well (unless that requires special tools beyond my reach right now). So I could keep the intermediate shaft bearings at my place so they aren't destroyed by the hot-tanking, or is replacing them cheap insurance, like the oil pump and pickup?