S-2 cam, torque low ???

[vinniem3]

I just got my motor together, but i can't for the life of me get the damn thing to come outta the hole hot. It lags very bad and it take an actual count of 7~10 seconds (using the 1 thousand 1, 1 thousand 2, etc method) before it starts hitting boost.
1) timing: set at 12 degrees
2) fuel pressure: set at 50psi base, 42 psi with vacumm line attached (this is because at 55psi base it was pig rich, fouled out the plugs)
3) Cam (S-2 taft): Set in perfect alignment as both valves were shut tight for the #1 cyclinder before i installed the head
4) crank sprocket to distributor sprocket timing marks in congunction with the bell housing torque converter alignment mark at the "0" degree mark.
5) distributor/rotor: pointing at #1 plug wire, slot is dead parallel with motor
6) Plugs: NGK G-4
7) Wires: Magnacore (red)
8) cap/rotor: mopar
9) Hall effect sensor: brand new mopar
10)TURBO: T3/T4 HYBRID
11) MANIFOLD/THROTTLEBODY: ONE PIECE PORTED TO 52MM, BUT USING THE 46MM FOR NOW
12) EXHAUST MANI, SIZE: 3" SYSTEM FROM SWINGVALVE BACK, MANIFOLD PORTED STOCKER
13) FUEL RAIL AND INJECTORS: +40'S, RAIL IS STOCKER MODIFIED WITH AN-6 ENDS INTERNALS REMOVED
14) EXTERNAL AFPR FROM TU (1.1 RATIO) MOUNTED ON SHOCK TOWER WITH GUAGE
15) FUEL PUMP: 255LPH WALBRO
16) MOTOR: 2.5L .030 OVERBORE
17) PISTONS: VENOILA .030 FORGED
18) I/C: SMALL NPR
19) BOV: 1ST GEN MODDED WITH 15PSI PRESSURE SWITCH
20) HIGH RPM LIFTERS
21) MOPAR HEAD GASKET
22) HEAD IS A "G" HEAD PORTED WITH O/S VALVES
23) 3BAR MAP
24) EXTERNAL CUSTOM VACUMM BLOCK FROM FWDP
25) VACUMM ROUTING: SHOULD BE RIGHT ACCORDING TO PAUL VELLIKY'S SPEC SHEET
26) TRANS: A-413 CLIFF RAMSDELL BUILT, T-TRAC FULL POSI, MVB, REVERSE SHIFT, ETC.
27) SMEC (*89 lebaron): AHHH!! Here's were i think the problem lies....It's a custom cal from Paul Velliky and it was done very well i'm sure of that!! He's always had great cal's and my last cal that used the T2 garrett and +20's was great. HOWEVER,...there always is that chance that something may have gone wrong and it is why i'm so pissed as to why he won't call me so i can have him simply "RE-CHECK" the cal. Why would i think the cal ???/....well, for starters i can't get the damn thing to give me fault codes. I've tried the on-off-on-off-on cycle and no joy. By the last "ON" cycle, the light never comes on at all. I'll only see the check light on the first two cycles, after that.....NADA!!! I've even tried the "ON", wait until the check light went out, then cycle for the codes, but still no joy! It'll never trip a code as i've tried making it trip by uplugging this or that and, oh yes, it'll give a light, but when i cycle the system to flash codes......NO WAY JOSE. IT AIN'T HAPPENING

Now i've tried setting the timing at 14 and even 16 degrees as i was told the S-2 cams like to be higher in timing. Anyway, the initial setup produced a very bad overly rich condition. Car would stumble and sputter and pop, etc. while getting to boost. The timing was and is very "bouncy" while trying to align the marks on the bell housing/torque converter with the coolant sensor unplugged. One moment it'll be at 12* then it'll bounce as low as 8* or at the notch above 8*, as well as bouncing from the notch above 12* to as high as 14* ??? Very unstable!! Anyway, i was told to try gapping the new plugs (which i'm back to champions RN9YC plugs) to .020 instead of the stock gap. Well by golly miss molly, it worked to the point of not being rich. HOWEVER, it's still at it's original sympthoms from the start of this thread.....BAD LOW END TORQUE!!!
I'm at my wits end, i'm figuring if i go back to the stock *89 roller cam and +20's instead of the +40's, if i'd get my low end power back? Problem there is the cal was setup for the +40's and the Taft S-2 cam. So i may be screwed!!!
Anyone, out there help please.

[contraption22]

Uh... what turbocharger are you using?

[vinniem3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by contraption22 Uh... what turbocharger are you using?

T3/T4......
SORRY ABOUT THAT. I UPDATED THE LIST AS WELL AS ADDED MUCH MORE (OTHER THAN THE SUSPENSION, BRAKES, GUAGES, ETC.) BUT THE LIST IS LONG!!

[guidsm]

Have u try to put a stock 2.5 SMEC and reduce your fuel pressure to 28-30 psi if you use +40 . I thing a pretty rich condition can create lag.

Guillaume

[vinniem3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guidsm Have u try to put a stock 2.5 SMEC and reduce your fuel pressure to 28-30 psi if you use +40 . I thing a pretty rich condition can create lag. Guillaume

1) When you say 28-30psi, you're talking about the base (static) pressure right??....(like when the vacumm hose is removed from the afpr). Right now my base pressure is at 50psi. When pual did my cal, he stated for me to set it stock 55psi. This was all due to the cal being setup for a swirl head that was ported very well. That head turned out to be junk (got it from MIKE SANDERS OF TURBODYNAMX....DON'T BUY HIS CRAP!!! HE'LL TAKE YOUR CASH......ANOTHER STORY IN ITSELF....i've written threads on him in the vendor/seller feedback section).....anyway, i'm using a ported "G" head w/ O-S valves that i got from FWDP. So i'm not sure if the different head config. is causing these sympthoms as well.

2) I'm working on getting a stocker. The local yards don't have any for my year car, let alone any at all. It's gonna take about 1/2 hour to 45 minute drive to get to a better yard where my luck odds will increase. In any case, if i use a stocker, i'm gonna need to go back to the original setup of using an MBC. Question is, because i have a 3 bar map, i don't think i'll be able to use the stock cal. Not unless i go back to the 2 bar and use a bleed for it.

As you can see from my post of what i'm running in the motor, the stocker i'd imagine, should be fine providing i use bleeds and the MBC right?
I have another fella that's suppose to be setting me up with another chip. Extremely low cost and it'll be a great piece i'm sure, as my bud from Washington state claimed he's never been happier with his cal revision. He's running somewhat similar to what i have.
Anyway, my primary reason right now of getting a stock cal would be to see if i can get check engine codes to display on my display panel. As well as the above statements, that both you and i are talking about.

[guidsm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinniem3 1) When you say 28-30psi, you're talking about the base (static) pressure right??....(like when the vacumm hose is removed from the afpr). Right now my base pressure is at 50psi. When pual did my cal, he stated for me to set it stock 55psi. This was all due to the cal being setup for a swirl head that was ported very well. That head turned out to be junk (got it from MIKE SANDERS OF TURBODYNAMX....DON'T BUY HIS CRAP!!! HE'LL TAKE YOUR CASH......ANOTHER STORY IN ITSELF....i've written threads on him in the vendor/seller feedback section).....anyway, i'm using a ported "G" head w/ O-S valves that i got from FWDP. So i'm not sure if the different head config. is causing these sympthoms as well. 2) I'm working on getting a stocker. The local yards don't have any for my year car, let alone any at all. It's gonna take about 1/2 hour to 45 minute drive to get to a better yard where my luck odds will increase. In any case, if i use a stocker, i'm gonna need to go back to the original setup of using an MBC. Question is, because i have a 3 bar map, i don't think i'll be able to use the stock cal. Not unless i go back to the 2 bar and use a bleed for it. As you can see from my post of what i'm running in the motor, the stocker i'd imagine, should be fine providing i use bleeds and the MBC right? I have another fella that's suppose to be setting me up with another chip. Extremely low cost and it'll be a great piece i'm sure, as my bud from Washington state claimed he's never been happier with his cal revision. He's running somewhat similar to what i have. Anyway, my primary reason right now of getting a stock cal would be to see if i can get check engine codes to display on my display panel. As well as the above statements, that both you and i are talking about.

1- Yes that right! static pressure

2-You can use just the chip and put it in your smec ( i have few here ). Put a 2 bar map and don't worry about 3 bar setup...this is just to be sure that your car is ok and not the cal. Re-Check cam timing also and base timing.

Using ported stuff can cause lean condition on the stock cal so be carreful when your are in boost, increase the fuel pressure to 35 psi if you wish to be safe.

Custom cal are made for a specific car and can work whit other setup but best think is to get a cal done for your car. Whit new setup i always start the car whit the stock cal and i check evrything.

let me know

[turbovanman]

Set it back up to TDC, now mark everything so you can put it back in exactly the same spot. Move the cam gear one tooth clockwise and go drive it. If worse, put it back to original and move it one tooth anti-clockwise. If it runs any better this way, you know you had the cam timing out. One tooth out will make it do EXACTLY what your describing. BTW, whats your idle vacuum?

[vinniem3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman Set it back up to TDC, now mark everything so you can put it back in exactly the same spot. Move the cam gear one tooth clockwise and go drive it. If worse, put it back to original and move it one tooth anti-clockwise. If it runs any better this way, you know you had the cam timing out. One tooth out will make it do EXACTLY what your describing. BTW, whats your idle vacuum?

Idle vacuum is at 16psi with sensor plugged in, 14psi if i take the sensor off (for timing). Other than that, i'll try that tip simon. Thanks for your help

[turbovanman]

14-16psi sounds a tad low, even with an S2 cam.

[ButchSuppe]

Vac. sounds low to me as well, cam timing can cause that

[vinniem3]

QUOTE guidsm : ".....Custom cal's are made for a specific car and can work with other setups but best thing is to get a cal done for your car......."


Bro, remember in the start of my thread i mentioned that the cal i'm using "IS" a custom cal from paul velliky (TU) and it was done specifically for my setup/car.
Both you and simon have been a great help to me on pointing me in the direction i hadn't tried yet. The shop where my car is at will be closed tomorrow, but i'll be eager to get to it on tuesday. Until i get the new chip from my new cal guy, i'll have to assume this cal is good as advertised from paul. Other than that, i really appreciate you guy's help.
BTW, you say you have a few stock chips that i could use for my socketted cal?? How much for one?? Would need your paypal (if you use paypal) to send money
Thanks again fellas .........vinnie

[vinniem3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ButchSuppe Vac. sounds low to me as well, cam timing can cause that

Yea that's what simon feels as well. I'll have to get on that tip on moving the cam in either direction one tooth like simon directed. GOOD INFO!!!
Butch, i see that you're from L.A ?? Pretty cool man Perhaps we can hook up sometime soon and car talk, or if there's any parts you may need, like silicone i/c hoses or ?? Do you get to the local meets in La Hambra at the applebee spot (thurs)?

[John B]

If you get discouraged with the S-2 I'll take it of your hands.

[vinniem3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John B If you get discouraged with the S-2 I'll take it of your hands.

THAT'S FUNNY ....LOL
SERIOUSLY THOUGH.......IT WON'T COME CHEAP .... IT'S BRAND NEW AND ONLY HAS TURN-KEY TIME ON IT.
I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR SIGNATURE THOUGH.....HOW COME YOU'RE NOT PULLING BETTER 1/4 TIMES THAN THE GOAL TIME OF 12.999? I WOULD THINK WITH YOUR SETUP FROM YOUR SIG THAT YOU'D BE BETTER THAN THAT? I WOULD THINK A STOCK STI, EVOIII OR AN SRT4 NEON WOULD DO THAT. OR AN I WRONG?...JUST NOTING WHAT THE MAGAZINES LIST THOSE CARS ON THEIR 1/4 TIMES AT....

[william]

All that info and nothing on how you centerlined the cam? When you say 14-16 psi vac, I assume that means 14"-16"... Might be a tad low, but with the G-head, I wouldn't expect much more. I am pulling ~15" with a G and 88 TBI cam. Sounds like a case of a retarded cam. Get an adjustable cam gear if possible. I bet if you bump the cam ahead a tooth (clockwise as seen from gear end) you will notice a big difference.