megasquirting an omlet

[1985ShlbyChrger]

So, if I install the MS system in my Reliant wagon with a 2.2TII, would I then be able to use the MS to run my 2.4 swap? I'm not sure how MS would trigger the ignition from the 2.4, would the crank sensor work on a 99 2.4?

Nate

[Abu Fayed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1985ShlbyChrger So, if I install the MS system in my Reliant wagon with a 2.2TII, would I then be able to use the MS to run my 2.4 swap? I'm not sure how MS would trigger the ignition from the 2.4, would the crank sensor work on a 99 2.4? Nate

Yes, Megasquirt-Extra will read the 2.4 (or 2.0) crank trigger. Even the '01+ NGC crank trigger. -Extra is a different software that you can load onto the MS CPU, it adds many many features, like that wheel decoder. When you're reading the factory crank trigger, you can fire the factory coils, like this guy did:
Archive

[ComputerJLT]

So; you care to give us the quick and dirty on how you got the MS-n-e to work w/ the stock distributor?

like what software/hardware tweaks were required. I'm somewhat familiar w/ the MS setup and i've been tuning turbo hondas and other imports for 2 years so get as technical as it takes; you wont confuse me This will be my frist MS endeavor and i'll probably adopt it for other off the wall projects as it seems to be getting very popular.

Anyway my project consists of a 95 dodge caravan that i'm putting an 89 TII in. I'm going to build up the TBI auto tranny and rebuild my TII and run it off a megasquirt 2v3. I'm keeping as much of the van's electronics stock so i dont loose instrumentation or climate control but i'll be using the MS to control fuel and spark on the motor; possibly even the lockup torqe converter if MS still does that.

[saw wave analog]

yea i know i am a bastard.. i have the thing halfway written. i will try to finish soon. there isnt really a quick and dirty explaination, there are ms board mods that need to be done, mods to the trigger wheel, settings in ms.. and if i tried to recall it all off the top of my head right now im sure id get something wrong.


i will do my best to finish it up soon, if you have any specific questions though post them up and ill answer them.


keep bugging me about this if you dont see any updates soon, i feel bad that its taking this long but honestly once i finished the project i just didnt feel like thinking about it for a while ha.



i will say that it worked very well, and i have had absolutely no issues whatsoever once i got it dialed in... megasquirt works and works very frickin well

[ComputerJLT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saw wave analog yea i know i am a bastard.. i have the thing halfway written. i will try to finish soon. there isnt really a quick and dirty explaination, there are ms board mods that need to be done, mods to the trigger wheel, settings in ms.. and if i tried to recall it all off the top of my head right now im sure id get something wrong. i will do my best to finish it up soon, if you have any specific questions though post them up and ill answer them. keep bugging me about this if you dont see any updates soon, i feel bad that its taking this long but honestly once i finished the project i just didnt feel like thinking about it for a while ha. i will say that it worked very well, and i have had absolutely no issues whatsoever once i got it dialed in... megasquirt works and works very frickin well

my main question is, is there anything different to do to the ms board that isnt required in any other distributor style setup.

also what mods to the dsitributor? i'm asuming you're using a tbi distributor

[saw wave analog]

the trigger wheel needs to be rephased. the stock electronics use the trailing edge of the shutter as the trigger signal, megasquirt reads the leading edge. (it may be ther other way around, like i said, i havent thought about it in a while)

basically the way the distributor is set up stock puts the rotor in between the plug wires in the cap when the trigger signal megasquirt uses goes off. you have to pull off the wheel and realign it so it is passing the hep magnet when the rotor is aimed at a plug wire


msnse does allow you to adjust the trigger angle in software, but after a couple days of messing with it not knowing if it was the ignition timing that was causing it to not start, or something else.. i decided to try rephasing the distributor, and it fired right up after doing that

it may not be necessary, but if there is a way to do it without rephasing the shutter wheel i wasnt able to figure it out in the few days i spent messing with it trying to get it to fire before resetting the wheel. i tried every combination of trigger angle settings and mechanical distributor placements i could come up with, and it just refused to fire.



yes i am using a tbi shutter wheel



msnse needs to be set up for vr/hall mode

the ignition input needs a 12v pullup

[ComputerJLT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saw wave analog the trigger wheel needs to be rephased. the stock electronics use the trailing edge of the shutter as the trigger signal, megasquirt reads the leading edge. (it may be ther other way around, like i said, i havent thought about it in a while) basically the way the distributor is set up stock puts the rotor in between the plug wires in the cap when the trigger signal megasquirt uses goes off. you have to pull off the wheel and realign it so it is passing the hep magnet when the rotor is aimed at a plug wire msnse does allow you to adjust the trigger angle in software, but after a couple days of messing with it not knowing if it was the ignition timing that was causing it to not start, or something else.. i decided to try rephasing the distributor, and it fired right up after doing that it may not be necessary, but if there is a way to do it without rephasing the shutter wheel i wasnt able to figure it out in the few days i spent messing with it trying to get it to fire before resetting the wheel. i tried every combination of trigger angle settings and mechanical distributor placements i could come up with, and it just refused to fire. yes i am using a tbi shutter wheel msnse needs to be set up for vr/hall mode the ignition input needs a 12v pullup

cool; how was phasing the wheel? remove and reglue?
Hopefully in a week i'll have all my mechanical parts together so i can start wiring the EMS.

[R/Tony]

Hey any updates on the writeup ?

[shadetreeshop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by R/Tony Hey any updates on the writeup ?

+2

is this the Phasing that should be done to the shutter wheel ?

it's a TBI disty, I understand the Electrical mods but am unsure of the HARD Mods..I'm currently using EDIS but need to remove the pickup to run a Supercharger, and it's time to figure out this Setup.

[Turbo2.2Coupe]

I'm running MS2 V2.6 on a2.2T1, the dissy is a TBI , and I just set the trigger signal to "falling edge" in Megatune. As far as I know or have been told in MSforums , all you have to do is setup your dissy to "rising" or "falling" edge in Megatune. I don't see why someone would have to modify the dissy. The same should apply to using a crank trigger, you just set the tooth count and which pulse to fire on - correct? Is Ms-n-e different in Megatune?

[shadetreeshop]

I read somewhere in some forum to do a 12deg trigger offset, instead of modding the disty to have the rotor and rising edge of the shutter happen @ the same time, I'm gonna do it ! looks like i'm doing some surfing and a little Digikey action...

[saw wave analog]

yes that is the main issue. for whatever reason, i could not get the rotor/trigger signal adjustment to work in megatune.

the software allows for either a delay between the time the signal from the hep is received and when the spark actually fires, or a predictive mode that calculates the spark in advance of when it expects the next signal from the hep to occur.. yet for some reason, many hours spent calculating exactly what i should set the trigger advance angle at, not to mention a lot of frustrated random experimentation still could not get the thing to run beyond a terrible idle.

i finally had the idea to just mod the shutter wheel itself and move it to where megasquirt would like it the most.. and that is with the leading edge of the shutter wheel crossing the magnet in the hep with the rotor pointing directly at cylinder 1..

it fired right up first try afterwards and everything... all of the work i had spent most of the winter doing, worked out beautifully and the car was daily driven from that point forward.


i dont know what i could have missed, because i spent a whole lot of time trying to get it to work in software before changing the distributor.. the stock ecu reads the trailing edge of the shutter wheel and by that point the rotor is way out of the range of adjustment in software


i was using megasquirt n spark extra btw



all you have to do to rephase the distributor is break all the little plastic blobs that hold it to the shaft, wirewheel all the old adhesive crap off so the wheel can sit flat on its perch, then just slather the shaft part with jb weld and eyeball the shutter wheel back on. have a hep handy to make sure that it doesnt run into the magnet parts, and use a sharpie to mark where the plug wire contacts are so the rotor is crossing #1


i wish i would have finished the writeup when i still had all the stuff around and the memory was fresh.. summer was starting right when i got the car running and i just never felt like writing more than i felt like driving the car or kayaking or whatever from then on lol.. sorry.. its about to be winter again though so maybe ill feel like doing it then heh

[saw wave analog]

double post

[mxmang]

I'm going to be megasquirting an 84 lazer soon, i've already 'squirtted a jetta...that was easy, this dodge i'm prolly going to go with like a stock t1 bottom end and head then build up a common block and maybe get a 16v head, anyways...i'm going to be building one of these mofos up and can answer any questinos you have about tuning... i run my jetta in -40c

[mxmang]

lol, you don't have to mod your dizzy dude haha poor bastard..

just change the trigger angle until the hall window is triggering on the falling edge or... change it to rising edge in MT OR... just turn teh dizzy until the falling edge is where you feel comfy with putting a timing light on until you can verify your trigger angle

dizzy is at 0v on the sig wire until the vane enters it breaks the magnetic resistance or something and brings the voltage to 5v...the ecu sees this as rising edge, then when the vane is through it sees it as the falling edge and voltage goes to 0 again... easy.. now you can cehck it with a volt meter or led..

uhh ya but... 13:1 for idle 14.7-17:1 for lean cruise (say 3k-7k in the 50kpa and under bins) then 13:1 where you're making peak torque w/o boost (so i'm told?) and 13:5 ish at wot w/o boost or so.. and then 12.5:1 or something maybe 12:1 under boost to keep the comb chamber nice and det free..