ms maybe?

[dodge89shelby]

im looking at using a ms system or even something along the same lines. but i want to actually talk to people who have the ms systems on there own car. i want to know what all it requires, what helps w/ the project ect. and so on. all i have really found on this forum is people talkn about its good b/c it incresses fuel mileage, and is very tuneable.
im not looking at spending tons of money which is why im not really interseted in a fast system.
as far as the tech side of it (ms), soldering, reading schematics ect, i know how to do so that isnt an issue.
this system will be going on my 89 daytona that has a 16v hybrid 2.2. im really wanting some help w/ this so that i go teh right way. im just not happy with the stock wire harness and cal being adjusted to work the 16v and im just not big on some issues w/ the cal (stock or aftermarket)

thanks -James

[GLHNSLHT2]

Personally I'd go with a Flashable smec setup and run Dcal or CHEM and adjust one of the 3 bar cals to work. You're looking at $130ish for the setup. With a wideband a/f it's simple and what I'm going to do with my 16v Masi motor. I have this setup on my 2.5 and love it. Contact XrattiRacer here about the flashable smec's he makes. It's really too easy.

[dodge89shelby]

thanks for that info...

im just really tryn to weight out all my options at this point... my car is running but im just not completly happy w/ it so.... i have to start somewehre right?

[saw wave analog]

the dcal/chem stuff out now is very nice, megasquirt is nicer but is a more involved and costly installation


msns-e can do/control damn near anything you can possibly imagine for your car


i recently finished my ms conversion, and have been driving on it for a couple weeks now. if you have any specific questions feel free to ask.. im not sure what you want to hear. basically for 180 bucks you get absolute control of all fueling and spark, launch control, autotuning capabilities, n2o control.... if you can think of it msnse probably does it.




i chose megasquirt over the chem route for several reasons.. the main one being that megasquirt just offers more stuff.. granted i have no plans on using a lot of it.. but its nice to know that its all there if i do. its a very elegant system.

the next most important reason is that i wanted a new, reliable electrical system. the stock electrical systems on these cars are old, brittle, corroded, and sucked from the factory anyway, and i wanted it ALL out. now i have a brand new, hand built wiring harness with no useless plugs dangling all over the place, and no gremlins


third is that doing megasquirt is a hell of a job, and the feeling you get in the end when you are cruising around in a car operating on a computer you built, a wiring system you designed and installed, and a tune that is 100% your own is pretty cool. its a lot more satisfying that just plugging in someone elses work, even though said other persons work is damn nice.




really, i havent researched the new chem stuff much, and ive never used it, so i cant make a side by side comparison, but i have nothing but good things to say about megasquirt so far, and its hard to imagine that a modified stock system could perform as nicely as a purpose built full standalone ecu

[dodge89shelby]

whats an msns-e?

[saw wave analog]

msns-e is the common abbreviation for megasquirt n spark extra, which is a code variant that runs on the standard megasquirt 1 hardware.

regular megasquirt 1 controls only fuel, the msns-e code (which is freely downloadable off the internet and extremely easy to upload to the megasquirt ecu) allows megasquirt to control spark as well, and adds a shitload of other features along with it. right now its actually more powerful than msII in terms of what it can do.

[dodge89shelby]

if i wanted to use that system (msns-e) what does it intell as far as making it work ie wireing, sensors ect?

[Shadow24V]

think almost a total rewiring of the sensors and other motor control stuff. mine looks like a birdsnest til i can tube/tape it or something. but as stated MSI/II or MSNS-e can do nearly any damn thing you want, window switching nitrous, you name it, and all told it will probably cost around $300 ish with all the goodies.

im running a MSII v3 on my 24v 3.0 still working on getting it running though.

[dodge89shelby]

well im not wanting to spend tons of time on this project. i spent 6 months already w/out my car b/c of building my 16v hybrid. but i know complet tuning such as the ms systems takes time. which i understand that but what i guess im tryn to say is that i would rather be tuning that looking at it in the garage b/c its much more fun to drive than look at.

will i have to change my sensors to gm sensors? or can i use my existing sensors? but i still ahvent gotten a straight answer... if i go with a complet spark and fuel control, will i still have my stock cal in the car? will i have to do wireing do make my factory gauges work?

[dodge89shelby]

well let me add to what i just said.... if it takes a week to put it in/on my car then great, i just dont want to be down for anywhere near a month.

[R/Tony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodge89shelby if i wanted to use that system (msns-e) what does it intell as far as making it work ie wireing, sensors ect?

If you're looking for a Plug n play system go for a cal... It wont take you too much time to replace your original ECU

I have a MSv1 and im still working on getting it running

[saw wave analog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodge89shelby well im not wanting to spend tons of time on this project. i spent 6 months already w/out my car b/c of building my 16v hybrid. but i know complet tuning such as the ms systems takes time. which i understand that but what i guess im tryn to say is that i would rather be tuning that looking at it in the garage b/c its much more fun to drive than look at. will i have to change my sensors to gm sensors? or can i use my existing sensors? but i still ahvent gotten a straight answer... if i go with a complet spark and fuel control, will i still have my stock cal in the car? will i have to do wireing do make my factory gauges work?

you can use the stock sensors if you want, you just have to calibrate megasquirt to read them. there is a program called easytherm (i think) that assists in doing that... i chose to just change over to gm sensors myself though, because MS is set to read them accurately from the factory, and they are cheap anyway. you are going to want to run an open element intake temp sensor anyway, so in the end its just easier to run the gm iat and coolant temp sensors. they thread right into the stock locations and look just like the stock stuff. no modification is needed to run them. MS comes with its own map sensor, so the factory one is eliminated, and the stock tps works fine


so basically, spend 30 bucks and get a gm open element air temp sensor and gm coolant temp sensor, its a lot easier than calibrating the stock sensors, and there will be no question as to the accuracy of the readings... and the open element temp sensor will be much faster to respond than the stock sensor. diyautotune.com sells both of them


if you do fuel and spark control, the stock computers are completely eliminated. id suggest even ditching the stock wiring and spending a couple days wiring everything up fresh. all of the stock gauges will still work except the tach. you may be able to run that directly off the coil, you may not.. i havent tried it yet. megasquirt can be easily modded to output a tach signal also, but again, i havent done any of that yet, my tach is still nonfunctional, so i have no direct experience. im sure it will be no big deal once i get around to it though.




as far as how long it all takes, if you buy everythign at once, it can be done in a week or two if you work your ass off. it really dependas on if you assemble the ms yourself, if you make a new harness, if you use a relay board, how many trips to the store you end up having to make.... its a big project but its not too rediculous. a cal would definately be much faster though, theres no doubt about that

[tkelly27]

I personally lean towards calibrations because I HATE wiring. I can never do it right : D Anyways, a D-cal calibration, if used properly can do many of the things MS can do.

D-cal is very tunable, although probably not as much as MS. Well, check it out
D-Cal : D-Cal Calibration Software
Sign up to the group, download it, and then DL a custom cal and play around with it.

There are flashable SMEC's for about ~$100. I like this thing a lot
Ostrich - Real Time ECM Emulator [OSTRICH] - $175.00 : Moates.Net
you plug it into the chip socket and it emulates an eprom. You can change whatever you want to the binary data while the car is running through a USB port. I don't know that you can do that with MS even. Maybe that thing + MS you could do it, I dunno.

I also like calibrations because if you screw something up, you can just drop in a $25 junkyard computer and drive away. If you screw up something in the MS, you're SOL.

If you are confident in your technical abilities and can follow instructions, MS might be a very rewarding project, and in the end, likely a more powerful tool. They sell them pre-assembled with wiring pigtails too, so even if you're not confident you can likely get it done, it's just more expensive. If you want to drop in a chip, 3bar, +40's and unhook the wastegate, a calibration might be a better bet. Again with the ability to swap back to factory units, that may be especially true for a daily driver.