Do +20s Require Cal or AFPR?

[HarderFaster]

Be easy on the noob, now.

I've owned my '89 LeBaron T1 Premium GT Coupe since 1994. Daily driver until about 5 years ago, until I got my girlfriend an Intrepid. Kept it around, barely driven, because I wanted to eventually add more power. Ran fine, but I recently rebuilt the motor to be fresh for upgrading. Basic rebuild, found a cracked ring land and went .030 on pistons, replaced Mitsu turbo for bad seal, and she's running very well.

Installed a grainger valve, set to 12 PSI, WOW, what a difference. Innovate LC-1 wideband with G2 gauge is in hand, 2 1/2" exhaust and muffler on the way, will be installed shortly. Intercooler and manual valve body are on hand, but decided the exhaust would be easier for starters than plumbing the intercooler. Will not raise boost until intercooled, probably a month or two.

I want to keep the Mitsu for a while, and spin it to 18 PSI, car is just for fun around town and the Mitsu comes on quick. Fuel pump is stock type, less than 10,000 miles on it, should be good for a while I think.
Eventually, I will install a Garrett T2, maybe even a T3/T4 but in no hurry.

I've been reading this and other Mopar forums for a couple years now, have cut and pasted enough information to make a book, and understand most of it. Have searched my info and the forums and cannot find an exact answer to my question. If I add +20s to support 16-18 PSI, do I need to install an AFPR? I believe that at idle and low rpms I will be a little rich, but is it liveable? Don't want to install a cal yet, maybe later. Will an AFPR be required and what base pressure would be correct? (20 percent less would be 44 PSI). I will have the wideband installed to make sure I'm safe, and MAP clamp to stop cutout.

Thanks for any input you can give. Feels good to finally get this car back on the road and looking forward to spanking the local ricers and mustangs

[GLHNSLHT2]

with your setup +20's are probalby not going to be needed. Get the wideband on the car and then see if you need more fuel. The computer should adjust at idle and cruise just fine, but be a bit too rich under boost unless you've done something like ported the head, bigger turbo etc. With the mitsu choking off the motor keep the stockers in and just watch the wideband.

[puppet]

... or, get the AFPR, drop the +20's in ... using the WB data, take a little fuel out if/or as needed.

Thing is, wanting 18psi is going to require more fuel ... and probably the best/easiest way to do that is with a re-CAL.

[Marcus86GLHS]

if 18 psi is your goal, and you will for sure have a wideband installed as you stated, i'd say the AFPR might not be necessary. but what will be needed is a 3 bar MAP sensor and an associated calibration to use that new MAP sensor. those two items are very inexpensive and provide you with the needed hardware for boost above 15 psi (2 bar). your 2 bar cal will be blind at 18 psi.

sounds like you are headed towards a very good setup on your LeBaron.

[GLHNSLHT2]

since he has a WBO2 I'd just fool the map sensor and turn the boost up slowly. If he can't get the boost up to where he wants without going lean then a 3bar and ECU is gonna be needed. But for now I wouldn't spend the money there.

[HarderFaster]

"since he has a WBO2 I'd just fool the map sensor and turn the boost up slowly. "

This was my plan, install the +20s, MAP clamp, and turn boost up slowly, watching WB. I figured that since I'm only aiming for about 3 pounds extra boost over stock cutout for now, that the +20s would easily get me to 18 PSI.

"... or, get the AFPR, drop the +20's in ... using the WB data, take a little fuel out if/or as needed."

Sounds like the best plan....just didn't know if I really NEEDED an AFPR to keep fuel correct at idle and lower revs. Sounds like I should install one.

"what will be needed is a 3 bar MAP sensor and an associated calibration... those two items are very inexpensive...

Hmmm, very inexpensive? $260 for the pair at vendor. I'm not a real cheapskate, but was trying to hold off on a cal and 3 bar until I get a REAL turbo in there. No time to learn CHEM / D Cal to burn my own, and don't know if I'd trust a chip burned by a forum enthusiast.


Also, I have a Mustang friend (yeah, I know, people may judge you by the company you keep ) who got tired of trying to fine tune the supercharger in his '89 (no problem at WOT, just at idle and low revs) and is instead installing a twin turbo setup, he's having fun trying to make it fit.
Part of his supercharger package was a Vortech FMU (fuel manage unit). From what I understand, this is a rising rate style regulator. Does anyone have any experience with the Vortech? Sounds like it might take the place of an AFPR nicely. The price is right, free, I need to see if he has any paperwork on it that may help determine if it will work for my application.
Any thoughts or experience on this?

I appreciate the comments and suggestions, guys,
Randy

[HarderFaster]

Found a little more info on the Vortech from their website.
The FMU lists at $178. Don't know which one my friend has, but I notice that the 4:1 FMU is designed for 38-42 lb per hour injectors and +20s for
my car are 42 lb. Looks like any of the units can be recalibrated to a lower ratio.

"The Vortech Standard Fuel Management Unit (FMU) is designed for use on multi-point electronic fuel injected engines. It is a secondary fuel regulator that installs in series with a stock regulator on the return line to the tank. The unit increases fuel pressure in proportion to boost pressure.
The 12:1 FMU is standard in many Vortech systems. It is suitable for most applications running with original equipment injectors to maintain an air-to-fuel ratio of approximately 10.8 to 11.5:1 under boost.
The 10:1, 8:1 and 7:1 FMUs are for Vortech applications that require less fuel pressure to maintain safe air-to-fuel ratios. The 6:1, 4:1 and 3:1 FMUs were designed for high-output custom applications where larger than stock injectors have been employed. For example, the 6:1 FMU can be used on 30, 36 or 38 lbs. per-hour injectors. The 4:1 unit was designed for either 38 or 42 lbs. per-hour injectors in the same application. Vortech FMU Recalibration Kits include a new ring, washer and fluorosilicone diaphragm.
When using an FMU with larger injectors or for fine tuning when other components that alter airflow are being used, Vortech offers an optional air bleed valve. This permits the rate of gain for any of the Vortech FMUs to be reduced by approximately two pounds of pressure per PSI of boost. It allows a 12:1 FMU to perform as a 10:1 unit. To alter the curve even greater, refer to our 8:1, 7:1, 6:1, 4:1 and 3:1 Recalibration Kits."

[Marcus86GLHS]

".....Hmmm, very inexpensive? $260........"


gotta love the TD community's perspective on money!

:-)


i got a lot of great advise from this website....those 3bar cals from Chris and Cindy are such a bargain IMO. do it right for the win light.

[cawcislo]

It all depends. Guys have run 12's for a few hundred bucks if you have the time and skill to play with used parts, extra injectors or Rising Rate Regulators. Others spend more money (like me) only to find the cals don't seem to work right, high performance clutches don't hold etc. So if you go slow and get good guages and have the time to tune, you should be okay going the cheap route. I think you might want to look into a Rising rate regulator. I think there's still a writeup on Donovan's Dodge Garage. The fully adjustable ones would probably do the trick and you won't need 3bars, recals, etc.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Still saying install the wideband and see what you get on the stockers before buying +20's. Then you know either way.

[crazymadbastard]

What Jay said, but I would crank up the fuel pressure a bit first. So maybe get an afpr(you will get one eventually anyway) just so you have "belts and suspenders". Don't get too agressive raising the boost, I did

[GLHNSLHT2]

An AFPR isn't needed anymore in my opinion. Why? they're $100+. That's half way to a custom calibration/3 bar map. Even more if you use dcal/chem. With a custom cal it should be spot on. With the wideband you can see if it is or not.

Sure you can old school it and use a AFPR and a RRGR but it's just as expensive in the end and more chance of fuel leaks.

With today's advancements in the electronics side of these cars it's an unnessacary expense.