Sparkplugs NGK, autolites, Champions....

[TFMech]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUPER60omni MSD 6AL. Problems solved. Its what I run.

I have a digital 6 box, blaster coil, custom built MSD wires....they help it run better but they dont solve it all. Dont get me wrong my car still runs like a bat out of hell I am of the school of if it is pinging ever so slightly at all it is loseing power and needs to be fixed. The Motorvation EFI and a dyno will help the issue alot though. Then I can get rid of the boy sized injectors and put some man sized ones in so when E85 shows up at the pumps around here the Omni will be ready.

[acannell]

wait a second. i explictly remember donovan saying he ran standard champions. i quote from the bottom of this page:

DDG- FWD ignition

QUOTE

Bracket racer Angelo Taylor writes in...

...I NEVER had luck with Splitfires or Bosch Platinums...
...nothing wrong with stock Champions.


******* I have to agree with Angelo on this- My Reliant throws down 10 second passes using Champions with no problems. *********

END-QUOTE

I dont want to sound like a jerk, but all this stuff about plugs sounds alot like "i dont really understand why any of this works but lets just try stuff out and see what happens"

[Reaper1]

You are correct he DID say that, but there are also a lot of things that he did as tricks that he didn't tell people about in masses. The whole reason *I* tried the non-projector plugs is BECAUSE he used them with success. Notice he never said what KIND of Champions.

Projector plugs have advantages in stock applications. They get the spark kernal out in to the combustion chamber farther so it can ignite more of the mixture. This helps with cold start-up, missfiring, and the biggest interest to the manufacturers...emissions. However, they also have the drawback of being way out in the chamber, and the end of the plug can, and does get hot enough in certain situations to ignite the mixture before the spark happens. By pulling the ground strap back toward the head it helps this issue. It also makes it so there is a shorter path for the heat to travel to dissipate in to the head to cool off the end of the plug.

To counteract the plug not being as far in the chamber, I modify the ground strap. I file off the end so it is in the shape of a "V" over the electrode and the tip of the "V" is over the center of the electrode. I learned that from a friend of mine that's been around racing since dirt was new....

[TFMech]

"I have to agree with Angelo on this- My Reliant throws down 10 second passes using Champions with no problems."

Did he ever say what heat range or what Champion he was running.....were the real stock RN12YC was he modifying his own code....maybe RN9YCs maybe even RN2Cs. Our fuel car throws down 4.50 328mph with champions in it. It blazes the ends smooth off of them and still runs that fast. They are a little cold at an idle work wonders at 25psi....if only I was at 25psi all the time. That and they cost 12 bones a piece to the average joe. Just because someone runs tens with such and such plug dosen't mean that it is what will work in everybodys junk. We dont know what his tolerance is for pinging either. Maybe after ten passes the plugs look like they have 40000 miles on them. As long as the thing is still trowing down 10 second passes it is all good. Keep running it just the same and change the plugs every 5 passes.

It gets even better in that Donovan was modifying his calibration to the car. Which would allow him to run the stock plugs because he could modify his cal to fix so he could. Then who is to say that he would not gain a tenth or two with a colder plug in it.

"i dont really understand why any of this works but lets just try stuff out and see what happens"

This statement is what seperates the guys that follow and the guys that innovate you think the first guys to dumped nitro in a motor knew exactly what was going to happen. They had a good but that is all they really had. Just like the few guys that are running turbo promods right know. They are trying stuff till they get it right and every so often when the do get the setup right for the conditions they are blazeing fast. Once they do get them figured out and almost down to a science. Everyone else will jump on the wagon...but those select few that spent the time to figure it out will still be leading the pack.

I fully understand how spark plugs work and know why my setup seems to run so well with shrouded plugs in it. I know how to fix my car so that I can run stock plugs in it all the time. I also have the know how and the the technology to make my car run 10 seconds if I wanted too. I DONT WANT IT TOO SO IT DOSENT I started this thread to state my finding so if anyone else has something close to my setup or is running turbos unleashed computer and might be haveing the same issues mine then they could try this to see if it helps. I also wanted to know what other people that have really played with it have found running these plugs. Some people dont have or do not want to spend the money on after market fuel injection, emulators, wide bands, and so on. They can take this and run with it maybe it helped them learn something they might find something more bring it back to the baord.

OK that is enough ranting....if you dont have any useful data dumb looks and useless comments can stay in the peanut gallery.

[TFMech]

Reaper1, the V thing sounds interesting do you have any pics.....I have filed them back for a long time to unshroud the electrode. I have never filed them into a V though. Sounds interesting.

[acannell]

wait a second here.

there is a BIG difference between people innovating and experimenting and people just not doing their homework and throwing parts at things because someone else told them to or they have some confused idea about whats going on but they dont want to take the time to learn anything.

what i am trying to do is seperate who is REALLY experimenting and THINKING from those who cross their arms and say "grandpa told me so" or simply DONT KNOW what they are talking about and just act like/think like they do.

I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN HERE.

anyone who has done ANY actual WORK and/or THINKING on ANY technical subject runs into people all the time who want to skip all the hard work and just pretend they know whats going on. or people who just want things to work in the real world the way they work in their head so they dont lose face or so they can feel like they have some kind of prestige, even if just to themselves. (walk into any parts store and 50% of the employees will fall into one of the above categories)

ahh.. thats my rant!

BTW..i think its pretty clear from the context of the donovan quote that he is suggesting STOCK plugs with STOCK gap. for whatever thats worth. all your points about his custom cal etc. do make it kind of meaningless whether he was using stock plugs though anyways.

[Reaper1]

I don't want to start any kind of war here, but Donovan was NOT running stock plugs in Relentless.

I tried them becuase I like to play things safe. It was stated that running these type plugs could possibly help with preventing preignition, so I figured why not give it a shot?

Filing the ground strap is nothing new. I even sad that. Hell, there are plugs on the market that have it done already! I just like NGK plugs, so I run those and modify them. I will say that the plugs in my '88 Shelby Z do not have this done to them becuase I didn't have the time to do it.

As far as being followers vs. innovators...it's kind of hard to be an innovator anymore right now. Most things have been tried or are being tried. The saying that there is somebody alsways faster than you goes a long way for us. To me the last BIG innovation for our cars was being able to drop the DOHC PT/Neon head on our block, but even that is far from being innovative anymore! Hell, there are basically kits to do it!

Anyways, I'm getting away from the main topic, sorry.

My point is as far as using non-stock spark plugs go in our cars...that's been done since Mr. Shelby got his hands on our engines! It's nothing new. It does work. YMMV.

[TFMech]

Reaper1, You still did not give me a good description of how you were fileing your plugs....with the V thing going on. Like I said I have filed the ground strip back for a long time I just want to know what the V thing you file into them is. Does it make them like a split fire sort of or what??? I just want to know for some reason.

As far as the innovative thing goes there is always room for inovation no matter what that is the whole idea of hot rodding. Bringing the innovation or technology to our cars is the thing. It is all in what you call inovative.....yeah I brought old technology to our cars. Yeah 1972 spark plugs are old technology they work like a champ I even crossed them through five books to a new number and they run better then the new autolites. No one else on here that I have read a post of has tried a set. Cant take all the credit my buddy John put them in his car first. Is that inovation or is that trying old junk. Didnt see any other posts about 1972 plugs in an 2.5 Omni. It gets even better was talking to Clay about them and back when he was running supercomp always ran some old prestolite plugs he dug up in his shed. None of the champion would run as well. Innovation or trying old junk? Has everything been tried and or modified till it works flawlessly.....I would say not so there is still room to make it better and or faster. There is tons of more room for innovation on our cars....does anyone have traction control on them yet, how about nitro injection systems, how about a check valve infront of the throttle body, how about an ignition retarder for traction, E85 anyone.....those are just a few off the top of my head. How about all those on the same car. How about an omni with a/c, full interior, thumpin stereo and all that runs 10s on the drag strip, and is as fast as a vette through the cones....doing it all on pump gas, and drives back and forth to work everyday, can sit in trafic and not overheat, we will throw in that it has to have an 8 valve head on it..... has that been done....I havent seen one. You think with there being no room for innovation left it would have been done already.....jab...jab.....sorry had to say it. Sorry moderators we will get this back on track on one of these posts here...

now that I have got way off base what about that V spark plug fileing thing????

[Reaper1]

Without a picture I can't really explain it much more clear. I file it so the end of the gorund strap is about even with the center of the electrode, then from the center of the ground strap over the elctrode I file about a 45* angle..from the center to the outside on each side of the strap. If you look at it from above it looks like a "V", where the tip of the "V" is over the center of the electrode and where it flares goes back towards the curved end of the strap and the outside edges. I try not to leave sharp edges except on the underside of the strap becuase electricity likes sharp edges more.

[TFMech]

cool i got it now file it to a point not so much a point but a rounded point. I have just always file them flat back just like they are then back further to unshroud the electrode. Never to a point though I will have to try it. Like you were saying I have always done them just like the race plugs that you can buy. Thanks.

[Reaper1]

There ya go!!

[TFMech]

cool I will have to try it out next week when we get back from racing down in San Antonio.

Kris

[TFMech]

I have to give the guys a call at motorvation next week also so I can get my aftermarket efi going. We will see how the shrouded plugs work with that also.

[SUPER60omni]

I run RN9YC's.....they work great for me. I will see how they work with the meth and the N20. Might have to try somthing different....only time will tell.

[tsiconquest88]

after reading through this i seen earlier that the bpr6es, 7es,8es,9es can be used in these engines. I have used those in every starion/conquest i have had, the 6es is stock in them. I use 8es for 2 colder steps and get them from snowmobile/atv parts departments as u dont find them in auto stores. However is it really ok to use them in these engines for the turbo dodges? I am picking up a 89 turbo voyager and would like input on this spark plug question as i got to put plugs in the head when i go to pick up the van.