E3 spark plugs w/ DiamondFIRE tech?

[roguetrip]

Anyone using these yet? I was watching Horse Power TV and seen them run on a LS1 vs. the "leading competitor" which looked like a four legged autolite or NGK plug. On a engine dyno after the run the E3's produced 5 1/2 more HP, and used less a bit less fuel (if i remember like a reading of .626 vs. E3's .606 for fuel index)

I see the 2.2/2.5/3.0 all listed as a E3.46 plug and going for about $5.99 a plug at scummit racing, is it worth trying, or just another scam?

[speeduphoria]

can you get different heat ranges?

[xrattiracer]

I have yet to see any proof that any of those gimmick spark plugs do anything at all. as far as i am concerned its just another snake oil industry.
those ones at least arent outrageously expensive (ive seen some for $25 ea), but still a far cry from the $1 copper plugs that work so well.

[5SpeedFanatic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roguetrip Anyone using these yet? I was watching Horse Power TV and seen them run on a LS1 vs. the "leading competitor" which looked like a four legged autolite or NGK plug. On a engine dyno after the run the E3's produced 5 1/2 more HP, and used less a bit less fuel (if i remember like a reading of .626 vs. E3's .606 for fuel index) I see the 2.2/2.5/3.0 all listed as a E3.46 plug and going for about $5.99 a plug at scummit racing, is it worth trying, or just another scam?

Good Morning All,

I have done some technical marketing for E3 and am an avid user. I also own a company that makes the fastest Mustang transmissions on earth. I have seen the internal testing from E3, spoken to their staff, and I will answer any questions I can. I figure as an outsider with some inside information I can give the straight story with no corporate bias, so here goes.

The E3 spark plugs are the most researched plugs ever created. We're talking controlled research at University labs with new engines. E3 tested every type of existing spark plug going back to the invention of plugs way back when. They even tested some aviation plugs.

The original intent was to improve the completeness of the burn to reduce emissions, especially in sooty small engine applications. What they found was that not much had been improved on plugs since their invention. They tested many different designs and found the one you currently see as the "Diamond Fire" created a more complete burn than anything else out there, including any other oddball design they could think of. It turned out that increasing the completeness of the burn improved not only emissions, but power and efficiency too. I seem to remember them saying that a Honda test engine was making 6% more power with this design, but don't quote me.

The only competitive design they found with any efficiency gains were the split fire plugs. Unfortunately, to hold down cost, the original split fire designs were replaced with single wires, split into a fork shape after the fact. This limits the fork spread and length, erasing any advantage that the original split fire design had. The four wire plugs you see out there, oddly enough, were an aviation design from radial engines where the spark needed to go out to the sides instead of forward. They are actually less efficient in an automotive setting than a traditional 93 cent plug.

The design that E3 uses now fires the spark kernel out into the air/fuel charge, where the most even and complete combustion can take place. Traditional plugs block the spark from getting out into the combustion chamber because the j-wire is in the way. I AM A TECH NUT AND THE BUSINESS I AM IN PUTS ME AROUND CAR TECH EVERY DAY. THESE GUYS DID THEIR HOMEWORK. NO GIMMICKS, NO INFOMERCIAL BULL. THEY REALLY SET OUT TO IMPROVE YOUR WORLD.

One other BIG Misconception!!! All the platinum, iridium, gold and other exotic coatings out there are designed to prolong the life of the plugs, but do nothing for the firepower of the plug. That is why newer plugs have longer replacement intervals but do not provide a performance advantage.

I have two 4-cylinder front wheel drives, one high performer and one grocery getter, and I run E3s in both. The plugs did not give me 100 extra horses or double my gas mileage, but I did get more power and an improvement in fuel mileage just as advertised. For turbo guys, the complete burn and the speed of the burn should help prevent detonation, a big plus for you guys. For the small dollar figures we are talking here, it is silly not to throw a set in the car.

PS Questions are welcome, but I am as busy as a one-armed paper hanger, so please be patient if I don't respond immediately. Any tech stuff I don't know I will shoot over to the guys at E3 for an appropriate answer.

[gkcooper]

S-S-S-Send your money to the S-S-S-Snake!

[5SpeedFanatic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkcooper S-S-S-Send your money to the S-S-S-Snake!

Companies that spend lots of time and money helping to improve the vehicles we love deserve better than this comment. It is truly a shame that there are so many snake oil products out there that when good ones come along we have a hard time recognizing them for what they are. I hope some others here who have run E3s will pipe up and relate their experiences. Enough said.

[speeduphoria]

Its funny that you google your company/products and join forums to advertise.

To the OP there is a post on all of the car forums that I'm on about these plugs, they all watched that stupid HorsePower TV, my advise is to learn that TV is provided due to Advertising. I wouldn't waste your time a $2 NGK is all you would ever need, or a Champion

[comp]

it looked like the ground electrode would block not be more open to the A/F charge

[Reaper1]

I find it VERY hard to beleive that a few spark plugs can work for ALL of those engines correctly! You can't adjust the gap, there are few heat range options. The information is correct as far as how the spark is produced, but what happens when one of those electrodes gets hot and starts glowing? Hmmm...same thing as what happens to the SplitFires...they creat ignite the fuel mixture before the spark...preiginition. The idea is good, but I really have a hard time beleiving they are a good option for a high performance, high boost application. I think I'll stick with my filed single electrode NGK's, thanks!

Oh, and Iridium actually conducts electricity BETTER than copper or steel, so not only is it harder than both for wear purposes, but it can produce a spark better due to higher conductivity.

[fiater]

Side gapping and indexing are just as effective.

[5SpeedFanatic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper1 I find it VERY hard to beleive that a few spark plugs can work for ALL of those engines correctly! You can't adjust the gap, there are few heat range options. The information is correct as far as how the spark is produced, but what happens when one of those electrodes gets hot and starts glowing? Hmmm...same thing as what happens to the SplitFires...they creat ignite the fuel mixture before the spark...preiginition. The idea is good, but I really have a hard time beleiving they are a good option for a high performance, high boost application. I think I'll stick with my filed single electrode NGK's, thanks! Oh, and Iridium actually conducts electricity BETTER than copper or steel, so not only is it harder than both for wear purposes, but it can produce a spark better due to higher conductivity.

The limit of my knowledge is simply that the testing has been extensive and the results have been good. I use them and like them. This does not necessarily mean that everything else is bad, just that the E3s are very good. As I have said, when people go out and spend time and money to help the hobby, no matter what they come up with, we should be happy that for some the status quo is not acceptable.

Oh, and thanks for the note on Iridium. You taught me something. I have been told that coatings are primarily for preventing erosion. Are you saying that iridium is a wire material and not a coating? Just want to make sure I have my facts straight.

[roguetrip]

I've been trying to dig up more info on them, everything I've come across says for lawnmowers and small motor equipment that they are good. Now in automotive I've found that they pretty much suck. Lots about them Misfiring after a short time. One forum said on a ford said that they actually cracked after 1800miles but I also found other posts on different cars showing problems with misfiring.

Its hard to dig up info especially when they've said there has been so much research done and no real documentation about it, but these plugs are copper cores with nickel coating, that probably won't last as long as a single platinum coating which is usually in OEM motors that don't need to be changed for the first 90k. One thing that bugs me is that a couple pics show a plug with 1 ground electrode that then comes out to a diamond shape, then a illustration of a plug shows 3 ground electrodes which hold a diamond shape in the center. I could see the plug with 3 leads cracking easily due to heat and stress in the combustion chamber!

There is also a site where a saturn owner does multiple testing and notices no increase in power or gas mileage. All these are easy to find off google.

One last thing maybe 5speedfanatic can maybe show more links on the deal with team lucas and E3. I'd like to find data from them that might be showing gains which I doubt there are any.

With all that I have found I find these to be something to try at your own risk and will more or less be a waste of money unless more proof is available!

[90TurboVan]

Technical Secrets of an F1 Engine - Learned in Toledo! - Column/Larry Webster/C/D Staff/Columns/Features/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

If they're good enough for F1...

All that really matters with spark in an engine is heat and duration. The longer and hotter the spark, the better ignition and combustion you'll get. This has MUCH more to do with the ignition system itself than the plug.

I should also add that no matter the number of electrodes, you'll only ever get ONE spark. One electrode will ionize faster than the others and become the conduction path. Last I checked, silver was the most electrically conductive metal followed by copper.

[Reaper1]

I stand corrected. I must've forgotten something. I appologize. It IS more conductive than platinum though, and is classified as the most corrosion resistant metal known! For the other nerds out there like myself!

Iridium:Conductivity. As to iridium's electrical and thermal conductivity, the electrical conductivity measured as to electrical resistivity @ 20 ºC is 5.3 μΩcm and its electronegativities (or its ability to draw electrons relative to other elements) is 2.2. The thermal conductivity of iridium is 147 W m-1 K-1.

Copper:Conductivity. As to copper's electrical and thermal conductivity, the electrical conductivity measured as to electrical resistivity @ 20 ºC is 1.67 μΩcm and its electronegativities (or its ability to draw electrons relative to other elements) is 1.9. The thermal conductivity of copper is 401 W m-1 K-1.

Platinum:Conductivity. As to platinum's electrical and thermal conductivity, the electrical conductivity measured as to electrical resistivity @ 20 ºC is 10.6 μΩcm and its electronegativities (or its ability to draw electrons relative to other elements) is 2.2. The thermal conductivity of platinum is 71.6 W m-1 K-1.

Silver:Conductivity. As to Silver's electrical and thermal conductivity, the electrical conductivity measured in terms of electrical resistivity @ 20 ºC is 1.59 µOcm and its electronegativities (or its ability to draw electrons relative to other elements) is 1.93. The thermal conductivity of Silver is 429 W m-1 K-1.

[roguetrip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90TurboVan Technical Secrets of an F1 Engine - Learned in Toledo! - Column/Larry Webster/C/D Staff/Columns/Features/Car and Driver - Car And Driver If they're good enough for F1... All that really matters with spark in an engine is heat and duration. The longer and hotter the spark, the better ignition and combustion you'll get. This has MUCH more to do with the ignition system itself than the plug. I should also add that no matter the number of electrodes, you'll only ever get ONE spark. One electrode will ionize faster than the others and become the conduction path. Last I checked, silver was the most electrically conductive metal followed by copper.

LOL, a F1 plug is nothing like a automobile plug, we don't use surface gap spark plugs.

Also the corrosion resistance of copper isn't very great and i'm unsure of a nickel coating corrosion resistance. Therefore these plugs aren't like iridium or platinums resistance.