experiences with FWDPerformance calibrations

[The Pope]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingbe Pope, People that makes their own calibration, for the most part, are not trying to make money. When you're not trying to make money, how can there be a vendor? Program such as D-cal and Moparchem are FREE. There are quite a few different calibrations for different year out there you can download for FREE. You download those calibration, you download the programs, you adjust the calibration for your need, fuel injectors size, 2.2 or 2.5 timing, etc, ask question... burn your own chip and set the boost to 6 psi and test drive, watch your wideband, and CEL light for knocks, takes notes, adjust your calibration and repeat. Yes, it takes a lot of trial and error and lots and lots of time, but it's still faster than waiting for shipping. To take an advantage of those program, all you need is a socketed LM, SMEC, and SMBC computer, a burner, lots of time and reading. No wiring needed to be done, unless you want to connect your laptop to the computer, but that's very optional.

there is a big market for flashable computers, even sent out blank. But no one sells them. A chip burner is about $400, I can buy a trim cal for that.

Then your not showing people the vast complexity of what is adjusted. The part throttle fuel curves. The adjustments made for air and water temps. The fuel pin points under vac during closed loop based on the map. There are many different scales to deal with. What about the knock sensor voltage that needs to be changed for high boost? Otherwise the engine gets loud from power and pulls timing without ping.

There are a few issues with plug in cals I've seen. And 2 ways they can come to make them easy to adjust. Now we know that the open loop can be delt with with fuel pressure. People want to plug in the cal, floor it and not blow up the engine. So you build a rich cal, floor it and the AF is 9:1. At this point people turn down the fuel pressure to match the AF at WOT. Problem, once your AF is right at WOT the fuel pressure is to low for closed loop and the engine can have a lean back fire and the computer is unhappy. So build extra fuel into the closed loop so when the open loop fuel gets close the closed loop gets close. Most run a no flow 1 piece intake and have other issue's that hurt power. So a +40 injector in the first place is way too big, and 85 PSI fuel pressure at high boost isn't good for the injector anyway. So building cals this way works good for most 8v people, you buy a wide band and with mods keep raising the fuel pressure.

So we have cals that come rich both places and need fuel adjustment, not hard with a APR and a wideband. Once you get the AF right where it matters, where it will blows the pistons into the oil pan how it idles is irrelivant. At this point you tell cindy the AF ratio and the fuel pressure. Then the closed loop can be scaled to match where the open loop is. But your car doesn't start at idle but it did melt the pistons. So the real cal issue is matching the closed loop levels and the open loop levels together so fueling is right in both places. The next step? You buy a trim cal. Now you can get the closed loop right with fuel pressure and adjust the open loop with the trim cal. but all other BS in there is right, knock sensor adjustments, part throttle and temp changed settings. I just adjust whats "different" with my engine.

Then we come back to vac lines and so on. Now with a 2 bar your reslution is better and a lame vac signal doesn't effect them as bad. Anything but a perfect vac signal to a 3 bar sucks. Having a T with anything like PCV or the boost controler or anything with the map? Think again, a 3 bar map should have it's own vac source away from anything that can mess with it. I do that with all of them but it just doesn't matter as much with a 2 bar.

So untill some one sells a flashable computer count me out, unless a off road race car. Which I don't have time for right now, them maybe a romulator. Sending burnt chips back and forth in the mail is ugly, better number those babys after you get a stack of about 50 of them lol.

[tryingbe]

Chip burner can be have for under $40 shipped... Search ebay for "Eprom Willem"
$400? You're overpaying alot.
Some chips are electronically erasable and can be used with our computers, I'm using one now. Chip is under $2 a piece.

If you really want a socketed computer, do a WTB and you'll find one for around $40-$60. They're out there. I got mine for $50 shipped.


I can't comment on people who does not know to setup their vacuum lines nor how FWD do their computers.

[The Pope]

At $40 a piece I'll be trying that, found someone to do the sockets. I want to use the rolutator and tune, then burn the chip to match afterwards but all the burners I've found cost way too much. I will try EW next. My wagon will stay 87 electronic so I want to get the socket with the arm like a computer CPU and run that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingbe Chip burner can be have for under $40 shipped... Search ebay for "Eprom Willem" $400? You're overpaying alot. Some chips are electronically erasable and can be used with our computers, I'm using one now. Chip is under $2 a piece. If you really want a socketed computer, do a WTB and you'll find one for around $40-$60. They're out there. I got mine for $50 shipped. I can't comment on people who does not know to setup their vacuum lines nor how FWD do their computers.

[impuresoul2k3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope My wagon will stay 87 electronic so I want to get the socket with the arm like a computer CPU and run that.

you want a ZIF socket then(zero insertion force)

[the.palmetto]

I would like to do something custom like that after I get all the goodies thrown on. If it's possible to have a better cal than what FWD has to offer then the trial and error might be worth it.

[Reaper1]

I'm using a FWD Stage-5.
set-up:
1988 Daytona Shelby Z
2.2(engine, head, cam, turbo all stock)
12* base timing
3" exhaust
FMIC
Devils Own alky injection
+40 injectors
Accufab AFPR
255 pump
Innovate LC-1 WBO2 with Dyno Tune display
on "hi" boost I run 22#'s
This set-up at 20#'s netted 210hp/291tq at the wheels. With a boost loop limiting my boost to 9#'s I averaged right at 30mpg duing my entire trip to SDAC18(including the track day where I averaged 22mpg on the track!). With the boost loop I can also run 87 octane with NO issues. I did run 93 at the track day just to be on the safe side, but I was using my water injection, so it probably wasn't needed. I do NOT suggest trying that with boost over 12#'s though, as the timing curve can get agressive and could introduce knock.

I initally had set my fuel pressure around 40-45psi static. After I got my WBO2 I turned it down quite a bit in order to get my WOT "hi" boost A/F's in the propper range. I don't honestly know what my fuel pressure is right now!

The issues I have with the FWD S5 cal:
-cold start *can* be a pain, but if you prime the pump twice, it makes it a HECK of a lot easier!
-part throttle stumble. I was tlaking with a few other people about this issue and regardless of calibration, they all seemed to experience it in some form or another. It's kind of annoying on the highway! Some probably don't even notice it.
-hot starting. Since I'm running an exptremely low fuel pressure, my engine is VERY suceptable to vapor lock. Bacially if the engine is hot from running hard or a long time, if I shut it off and let it sit for a little while, when I go to restart it, the fuel has boiled and there is now air in the rail. I usually have to prime the pump twice, get it to try and fire, then do it again after a wait of about a minute. Once I do that, *usually* it'll start, but it doesn't like it for a bit! I'm betting that if my set-up could utilize a higher fuel pressure(needing more fuel due to a better flowing set-up) that this would be a non issue. My thought for now is to get some DEI thermal wrap and cover the rail to try and help the situation.

Other than these things, I have NO complaints about the calibration. It does what I need it to, I get decent milage, and it gives me the option of going REALLY big if I want to!

[the.palmetto]

All the verbage people are using to describe the functions of the Cals are starting to confuse me. Can anyone break down exactly what I need that will give me the most customization for the best dollar? People are saying there are alot of problems with the FWD Cals because they make the A/F too rich but I just don't understand why you can't throw a boost controller on that mug and turn up the boost or whatever. Can someone give me the lowdown in laymans terms because I am confused reading some of these posts.

[jonnymopar]

They don't cause "problems" because they're too rich, it just seems to me, based on feedback posted here, that when they're used as a *direct drop-in*, that's when you get issues with running too rich. All you need is some adjustability. AFPR, boost controller, or both will get you where you need to be. I have both, and except for start-up issues, everything's great. As far as editing cals, someone else is going to have to chime up here because I'm still lost on that one.

[tryingbe]

If you're running 5 psi and 10:1 a/f, doesn't matter how much more max boost you give it, at 5 psi, you're still at 10:1.

More boost doesn't change the fact your running rich at any given boost level.

[neonsox]

I was thinking about getting one of these FWDPerf CAL's until I read this thread. Now I'm not so sure. I have an '87 T1 log intake setup and yes, I know I should swap it out for the later intake setup, but I'd rather stay close to stock and not swap anything out right now. Can anything be done for my setup? No intercooler, log intake, Garrett turbo.

[ShelbyMopar89]

If you direct drop in a FWD cal (as long as you add what is required for the cal) it will run fine for a long long time. Yes you may have some cold strart issues, but under boost it will run fine. I heard somewhere that the factory A/F was in the tens so you are no worse off. I believe Cindy runs the cals rich so everybody does not blow their shit up them blame her. As said before you can adjust fuel pressure to get the A/F where you need it, and that is easy to do. So the only thing that is still an issue is the cold start issue. Everybody I have talked to has gotten used to starting their car 2-5 times every time it is cold before it stays running. Just the norm for me now, I have no complaints with the cal other than that, heck still has cruise. I just finished my car and have been adjusting. At 5lbs A/F was between 11.1-11.5, 10lbs was 10.5-10.7 range. Turned it up to 16lbs and was setting around 10.1-10.4. Backed off the fuel pressure and brought it up to 11.0. I stopped there because it was getting too hard to read A/F,EGT,Boost, and Alky inj while zooming down the road. I will finish "tweaking" it on the dyno in a controlled enviroment.

[the.palmetto]

That actually helps alot. A good thing for me is I only live about 6 hours from FWD so if they have a Dyno I could get my stuff tuned on the spot. That would probably be my best bet after I get all the mods put together.

[crazymadbastard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neonsox I was thinking about getting one of these FWDPerf CAL's until I read this thread. Now I'm not so sure. I have an '87 T1 log intake setup and yes, I know I should swap it out for the later intake setup, but I'd rather stay close to stock and not swap anything out right now. Can anything be done for my setup? No intercooler, log intake, Garrett turbo.

Use a manual boost controller to 11-12psi and make sure you are tuned up and run super gas until you are ready to get serious.

[charger R/T]

my FWD cal actually fixed a cold issue my R/T would bog in the first few minutes of driving once you were moving and once you got the RPM up to about 2500 it was fine till cold again. Since I swapped in the cal its perfect. The car never had an issue with the stock cal or the FWD starting up both fire off first crank.
Tim

[2.5TURBO]

91 shadow 2.5T

i had the 255 fuel pump, 804 injectors, stage 5 calibration and never has any issues. my car never did control the boost itself and i tried every combination of different solenoids, and different ways to send the boost and could never figure it out. the boost was always run 20-25psi winter, fall, summer, spring.

The coolest part of my calibration was i got to keep my cruise control, and it works at 115

overall FWDP is my #1 vendor, cindy's got the knowledge and everything is shipped quick and right.