please help vacuum problems

[mad_psi-shelby]

well i started the car, let it idle(it idles about 1300). Took the vac hose off the intake the check engine light came on the idle went to 2100rpm and stayed there. i left it there for 60 seconds and then unplugged the ais and it didnt change or anything. Did i do this correctly? thanks.... i pluged it back in then corrected the leak if that matters.

[shadetreeshop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_psi-shelby hey guys, havent checked cam or ign timing yet.

why does no-one ever accept that to Diagnose anything you have to start at the beginning . Not the middle , Not the end , Not at step 2.

STEP 1 , Verify Cam timing as stated earlier in this thread !

Then and ONLY Then will anyone be able to provide you with Information that will help you repair or diagnose your problem.. Here's a good question , when was the last time the Timing belt was replaced ?

[mad_psi-shelby]

you guys are right. I know i need to change the belt its got a few cracks here n there. But would bad cam timing cause my erratic idle?? and why does it smoke really rich and load up when i start it when its hot??

i did notice when i made the big vac leak to test the ais the valves starting rattling or pinging or something..........

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_psi-shelby you guys are right. I know i need to change the belt its got a few cracks here n there. But would bad cam timing cause my erratic idle??

Nobody is telling you to change the belt. you are being told to make sure the little dot on the crank gear lines up with the little slash on the intermediate gear and that the two little arrows on the cam gear line up with the seam where the cam cap meets the head.

Computer cars only know what they know and if something is wrong (like a high idle) they will attempt to compensate. As the computer attempts to do this you will no doubt think it is acting funny. Unfortunately you car didn't come with R2-D2 so if there is something mechanically wrong (cam timing, bad sensor, etc) it is up to you to fix that so the computer can do its job.

Looking over your pictures, It seems your purge solenoid is hooked up wrong. That port on the top looks like it once had a foam filter there... that would indicate the top port is the bleed port (looks like a new vacuum line is there and the vacuum diagram says it doesn't belong there -manifold vac goes to bottom port). these cars had ridiculous vacuum setups relating to the canister and if they are not hooked up right (causing the engine to draw in gas fumes when it does not expect to) they could cause the problems you are describing. Make sure you check valves are oriented correctly and that the purge solenoid is hooked up correctly. ...Or at the very least get some vacuum caps and cap those two ports on the top of the throttle body to see if you problem gets better indicating that the EVAP system is the source of your (rich) "vacuum leak".

Have you checked for trouble codes? Those can often shed some light on the subject - they were designed to give you an idea what the computer is thinking while acting funny. Go check for codes.

[mad_psi-shelby]

OK. first thing. Thank all of you who are taking the time to help me with this.

second. I think my evap system could be somewhat wrong. as for The purge sol........ i saw the reminents of the filter on top too so i hooked the line to the bottom and i dont remember if my wastegate quit opening or the car ran bad (One of the two happened after i switched).

no computer codes are stored.
can anyone explain to me where the 2 vac hoses go from the throttle body? can anyone take a picture of their vac system??????

There are no fuel leaks in the engine compartment, but when the cars hot and it idles for a second and i open the hood, i spell fuel vapor. IS it possible i have the evap hooked up backwards and its pusing the fuel vapors out of the canister into the atmosphere? thanks again guys for all the help!

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_psi-shelby OK. first thing. Thank all of you who are taking the time to help me with this. second. I think my evap system could be somewhat wrong.

No doubt. I just told you that...

you didn't say if it was a T-I or a T-II...
Do you still have the vac diagram under the hood? I could post it for you.

either way...

the 2 lines on the throttle body go to a "T" that comes off a line from the canister. each line should have a check-valve that only allows the vapors to go one way towards the TB. Regardless... you might as well cap those off to eliminate them from the system and see if the problem is still there since the purge solenoid is hooked up wrong anyway letting a bunch of fuel vapors into the engine when you dont want them. I say cap off where you have the line running to the purge sol too. Eliminate that crap and see if the problem goes away...

[mad_psi-shelby]

cool cool. its a turbo2 sorry

update. THis morning i went out and switched the purge vac line to the bottom of the sol because i was told to. I started the car, idles fine then check engine light came on and it fell to 500rpm and stumbled. i kept it running it started smoking not oil, rich. it was missing at idle and the motor was rocking back and forth so i shut it off, put the line back on top where it shouldnt be and started it and it idles at 1200. Drove it drives fine came back now it steady at like 1400.


will it be driveable with the 2 ports on top the tb capped off? i closed them both off and the idle smoothed out, but i didnt drive it like that.

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_psi-shelby will it be driveable with the 2 ports on top the tb capped off? i closed them both off and the idle smoothed out, but i didnt drive it like that.

Sure... I would also cap that line off at the plastic vacuum "T" thing you put in.
I am not gonna promise that will make the car run like a new BMW, I'm simply saying that since it's messed it should be eliminated so it does not cloud the diagnostics of any other problems.

You said your wastegate was acting funny too... Make sure you did not accidentaly hook up the wastegate line using one of the check-valves that goes to the TB. That might make your wastegate stick open.

[Screamin4banger]

Here's the diagram:

[mad_psi-shelby]

i have that diagram and its routed exactly as shown. All lines are there and are intact. Also, when the cars about halfway warm it will have no idle at all, it will just fall straight to 0rpm. it will do this for about 2 mins then the idle will come back and when it does now its idleing at a constant 1500rpm and i cant get it any lower. ughhhhh. i dont know, ill block those 2 ports off and the one on the tee and see what happens. thanks again guys

also, why is my purge sol hooked up like this? it wont run right routing it the way yoo said to hook it up, its back on the nipple where the filter was, on top of the sol .........it wont run hooked to the bottom one like you told me to do. THanks

[wintersrain]

Thank you!I can use this for mine.I have an old T-1.

[crusty shadow]

on the throttle body the 2 ports are needed. the passenger side port goes to the evap can- thats where the fumes from the charcoal canister get sucked into the engine. you can cap that port off if you dont care about the evap system being functional. the drivers side port should go to your blow off valve
on the evap can you'll see the plastic vacuum line plus 2 larger rubber lines, one goes to the passenger side port on the throttle body, the other goes to the evap purge solenoid. follow the plastic vacuum line to the evap solenoid- its the solenoid that is towards the front of the car. the plastic vacuum line from the evap can should be run to the lower nipple on the solenoid, and the upper nipple goes to engine vaccum. the nipple that sticks straight up is a vent, and should be left open. they are supposed to have little foam filters on the vent but doesnt have to be there for it to work properly.
you can check the diaphram on the evap can by taking the vacuum line going to it and sucking on it to make vacuum, then let it stick to your tounge.it should hold with the same ammount of suction- leave it on your tounge for a minute to make sure there are no pin holes in it. if you cant get it to hold any vacuum the diaphram is bad or you have a crack in the vacuum line. replace with known good hose and try again. if still cant get it to hold any suction the diaphram is bad and needs to be replaced, but you can just unhook it and cap off the nipple on the purge solenoid for the time being.
do the same thing with the map/baro sensor. use the line where you have it hooked to manifold vaccum, and do the same diagnostic procedure for the evap diaphram. if no suction, remove the short hose going from the baro to the map sensor, hook a known good line directly to the map and try it . if it wont hold suction, map is bad. if it does the lil hose may be bad- check it the same way.

from the turbo you should have 2 vaccum lines, one comes from the small nipple on the compressor housing and the other comes from wastegate can. these come together with a "T" right by the turbo and then the line runs over to the wastegate solenoid. there is an orifice that goes inline with the hose comming from the small nipple on the compressor housing but before the "T"- it just looks like a simple plastic union for vacuum lines- definately wana have that in there, it smooths out the boost signal to the wastegate can so it doesnt open the wastegate prematurely.

you then have the fuel pressure regulator- gets run to full manifold vacuum.
boost gauge- full manifold vacuum- hose for it should run into passenger compartment on pass side if firewall ( i think)
you will see 2 vacuum lines going thru the firewall right under the heater hose outlets. the green hose goes to full manifold vacuum and is connected to the nipple on the brake booster check valve, the other goes to the heater shut off valve ( located down by the radiator inlet under the battery)
you can check the booster by taking a pair of vice grips and simply pinching the hose shut while the engine is running.

the hose for the PCV valve- simply remove it and put your finger over the opening- should be some vacuum but not like a black hole. pinch that line shut where it goes into the manifolt if you think its suspect. there is also another large vacuum port located between the #1 and #2 cylinders- pinch that line shut too.

i like pinching the lines shut because you can shut off vacuum to all the stuff except the bare minimum of what the car needs to run- map and FPR, start unclamping lines till the idle shoots up- you just found your problem!

the tounge trick works great when you dont have a vacuum pump to check diaphrams

i spent several hours tracking down vaccum leaks in my car a couple months ago, i found it easier to simply disconnect all the vaccum lines, except for the map sensor and fuel pressure regulator, and reconnect one line at a time till the car started showing the problem

[mad_psi-shelby]

THANK YOU for that long post, alot of useful info.

update. I took the 2 lines off the throttle body, capped them, capped the nipple on the vac tee where that line was, and drove the car. idles like it did, seems to drive a little smoother...........BUT when i start the car when its hot it does NOT smoke and load up anymore like it used to, but it still idles like shit. I got a timimg light, im going home and gona check it what a good baselike running 91 and up to 14psi??

ok just tryed to put the car in time. I hooked up the light, unplugged the coolant sensor, fired it up it didnt idle at first, then a belt started squealing for a sec then it cleared up and IDLED SMOOTH AS GLASS at 900rpm. ive never seen this car idle like that it was like brand new. I checked the timing i set the gun at 12btdc and the mark wasnt visable, so i turned it and now its set at 12btdc. thats what the underhood sticker says. Anyways, the car doesnt like the timing change. i lost 2-3 inches of vac and it idles rough. im going to drive it home and see how it runs. can anyone explain why the car ran so smooth when i unplugged the coolant temp switch? could this be my problem?? thanks guys again

[mad_psi-shelby]

alright guys. I changed the coolant temp sensor, havent driven it yet but it does idle smoother. I backed the timing off to 10btdc cause i had it at 12 last night and it ran really hot all the way home. Im not sure if that was cause of low water or what cause it was low on water when i got home, but its at 10btdc now im gona drive it again and see how it does. anyone know why the car runs so smooth when the temp sensors unplugged?

[crusty shadow]

did you let the car warm up to operating temp before you unplugged the temp sensor? have you checked the timing belt yet to see if the cam is in time?
check the belt, and make sure its in time, advance it or rtard it to get in proper time if its not, make sure to properly re-tension the belt. then set your timing to 12 deg btc. with the car at operating temp and the sensor unplugged. shut off car and disconnect battery to clear any codes. wait about 10 minutes, reconnect battery and start car. it may be kinda hard to start as its lost all its learned info but should start up and idle smooth, assuming theres no vacuum leaks. hopefully you've traced and repaired any vacuum leaks and have isolated any bad components. if it still idles high, unplug a vacuum line and wait 60 seconds, unplug idle air motor. shut off car, reconnect vacuum line and idle motor. start car, if its still idleing high you may have a vacuum leak thats not in the lines- brake booster, diaphram FPR etc- try pinching off vacuum lines to isolate it. if that doesnt work, you could have a manifold gasket leak or an injector o ring leak- will cause same problem. what i like to use is K&N air filter oil if you have any laying around. with the engine running lightly spray around the intake manifold where it mounts to the head and the spots where the injectors go into the intake- if either of those are leaking you will see a big puff of blue smoke come out of the tail pipe. spray around the throttle body next if that doesnt show anything. if you have eliminated all those areas it sounds like you may have a bad idle speed motor, or the passage may be clogged with carbon deposits. pull it out and see whats going on in there- the o ring shouldnt be hard as a rock or any tears or crumbling to it. the passageway into the throttle body should be clean- sludge in there will keep the pintle from closing properly.
if thats all clean, you can take the idle speed motor to your local chrysler dealer and have it checked- they should have a tool there that they hook up to it to reset the pintle and actually make it move so it can be seen working properly.