e85

[TURBOVAN]

I don't have a working odometer, but i put e85 in my 89 2.5 tbi spirit, it seemed to work fine without any kit or anything. I heard a guy on the radio saying most cars will run fine doing nothing to them, experiment by adding a gallon , then 2, then 3 ..... etc. I went for broke, I was close to e and put 3 gallons in, figuring that worse case i'll add more regular gas. It runs just fine on the stuff. The conversion kits don't come with injectors, or fuel lines, they aren't needed (just because chrysler used them don't mean you need them). I heard on the show how the model t ran on gas or alchol, and all they did was adjusted the timing and the choke. I' also heard on that show that you could run straight alchol and save $$$$, you can even make your own fuel for 1.00 a gallon, or maybe find some for even double that. yes milage is lower, but for 1.00 a gallon who cares if you loose 15-25% milage when others are paying 5.00 a gallon. I also heard with high compression and turbos, your milage could likly increase. the only thing for alchol is that you need a small reserve of gas to get it to start, so like a liper pump that gives a squirt when you crank your ignition on. I heard in brazil they been doing this for years, and import no foreign oil. your thoughts?

[jforce]

Good work,I like seeing people figuring stuff out for themselves and not following the herd off a cliff. Too bad that car isnt turbo or you could have some real fun with the alky. In this day and age,running e-85 is the patriotic thing to do and early adopters are the ultimate patriots (next to military service) Spread the word!

[Screamin4banger]

What show did you see this on? I'm familiar with the Model T 's mixture and timing controls... I had been thinking of doing something like this on one of my non-computer cars. Not E85, pure ethanol (well, pure enough - pure ethanol requires some crazy process that you need a lab for and runs $10 - $15 a gallon in bulk). I'm most curious about that $1/gallon figure... I tried figuring out what kind of 'start-up' costs there were to start making 100+ gallons of moonshine a week... I never finished tallying it up cause I figured out I didn't have the room, but it was getting up there... And then there's the license and permits and all that... unless you want the ATF going Waco on you.... made my head swim...

Anyway, I'd like to check out this show you watched...

[turbokid]

Interesting fact the 64 turbine car could run on straight alcohol! Many people could drink half a bottle of jack, and there car drink the other half
Ya I think running e85 on a tbi car is almost better because the prospect of leaning out is less than on a turbo car so less tune would be needed!
Just keep an eye out for leaks in the rubber. There is so much fact-fiction about the rubber lines being safe and not being safe that I would check them every now and then for peace of mind.
And maybe experimenting with the timing a bit could prove fruitful for some good hard facts on what ethanol will do on these cars

[jforce]

Those turbine cars were an amazing feat of chrysler engineering.They could run on almost anything that could burn. Interesting as to what killed them off,and how it relates to what is happening today.

[TURBOVAN]

Websites

permaculture.com

Books

Alcohol Can Be a Gas!

[turbokid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jforce Those turbine cars were an amazing feat of chrysler engineering.They could run on almost anything that could burn. Interesting as to what killed them off,and how it relates to what is happening today.

I am part of a winged warriors club. The turbine car outa the museum (the only one that runs and is fully functional) has come out to a couple of meets in st. louis. I have ridden in the car and let me tell you its freaking sweet.
I have listened to the top mechanic that was head of the turbine car program and he said the main thing was parts were expensive, there was no instant acceleration (had to spool the motor), and the oils and technology of those times was not upto snuff.
He stated multiple times that building a turbine car with todays technology would be a piece of cake because of the advancement of oil technology, the new parts and metals that will hold up better to abuse, and the need for an alternative energy source (the 60's weren't all about gas mileage).

[Reaper1]

^^There are 2 or 3 Turbine cars that are 100% operational. I saw one a few years ago at Amelia Island Concourse De Elegance(invite only event...mostly private owners or smaller museums). The Chrysler museum one. I'm not sure if the one in the Ford museum runs or not. And there are a few others, but are non operational.

The Turbine program continued in to the mid 70's before being completely killed. By the end they were getting in the mid 20's for fuel milage. Yes, the cost of materials was the #1 reason for the program being killed off. The #2 reason was they couldn't get the efficiency out of it they were aiming for.

I'm sure with today's technology that could change.

On an intersting note...at that same show I saw the Chrysler Turbine car...they also had two other gas-turbine powered cars there. One was one of the turbine Indy cars(they actually drove that one around!) and the other was an experimental GM prototype. It had a minor roll in a cult classic movie: Back To The Future: part 2, where Marty McFly almost gets run over in the future when they go to rescue his kid...the silver car that almost hit him was the GM prototype turbine powered car!

Interesting stuff....

I won't waste my breath again warning against using alcohol fuels in our cars as there are some people on here that are know-it-all, I'm-right-you're-wrong, internet warriors. All I'm going to say is be VEDRY careful!

Oh, and if you try to use 100% alcohol for fuel...you are going to want to add some lube addative to the tank each fill up as the fuel will wash the cylinder walls fo any oil and cause premature ring and piston wear. Also, you will have to step up your oil change schedual as it WILL dilute the oil. Don't believe me...ask ANY person that's EVER run a alky dragger! And it does NOT have to be only methenol...ethenol WILL do the same thing.(forgive the spelling...I'm REALLY tired right now)

[jforce]

The lube issue is a diesel thing.The new ulsd (low sulfur) fuel is too "dry". Guys are adding 2 stroke oil and such to make up for it.The diesel injection pumps are expensive.It's not a problem on a street car,the clearances in the motor are tighter than race motors but yeah,oil changes are a good thing.You really don't want to add too much if any oil to the alky as that will foul the injectors,causing them to bleed down and cause the very problem you're cautioning against.

[Reaper1]

Alky breaks down oil. It doens't matter if it's in a race car, or a street car. If he wants to try and run 100% alky(be it Meth or Eth), it NEEDS to have a small amount of lube in with the fuel. I'm sure there are directions on how much to use for injected engines, as well as different formulations for carb vs. injected. I've neverrun the stuff, so I don't claim to know 100%, but I DO know that people do it, so the correct info IS out there! Unless the info is coming from another member here who HAS run 100% alky on their injected car(of which there are only 2 that I can think of, and neither are very active and BOTH cars make some HUGE power and are NOT streetable), then I'd personally suggest doing some research on the topic and NOT taking anything as gospel that is here(inlcuding what I say, since I don't have the personal experience with it).

[jforce]

I have been running 85% for 18 months in 3 very different applications and at that percentage it has not been a problem.That's what most people will be running.The methanol is harder on the oil though,but the strip cars that run it are a whole different ballgame

[TURBOVAN]

well i just filled my spirit with e85 and i guess i wasn't on e when i put it in last time. she stalls and runs awful now. It will start and run fine parked, now i have to let it run parked and then add real gas.

[crusty shadow]

your fuel filter or injectors may be clogged. alcohol does a really good job of cleaning all the crud out of your fuel system. check your fuel hoses, if they are old, replace them. check your injector o rings. fuel pressure regulator. anything that has rubber parts that are old can be affected by the alky. is your car N/A or turbo? check your timing too. it can be bumped up 2-4 degrees, which will help with hard starting.
mine has run fine other than cold start, just needs some retuning of the cal for cold start enrichment, and bigger injectors.

[TURBOVAN]

mine is a tbi car, It did good at higher speeds, i drove it steady at 80 for about 45 minutes, then squeezed 3 gallons of regular gas in it, on the way back it didn't stall and acted much better. I'm guessing a a 70% e85/30% old 87 is how she runs best. I'm not sure of this so i'll run it by you guys. if we mix e85 with regular 87 will we get the equivilant of premium 94 octain for less than the price of regular? for turbo applications, not my tbi car that don't need premium gas.

[crusty shadow]

most E85 is 105 octane, 70% E85 and 30% 87 would put you in the high 90's as far as octane goes. a tbi car may not have enough injector to keep up w straight e85. check your plugs and ignition timing. try bumping up your timing a couple degrees- you'll get better mileage.