No spark @ coil, engine died no fault codes

[ShelbyZ]

No spark at the coilHi and hopefully NAJ is kicking around.
A tough problem: First the car is an 88 Daytona Shelby Z 2.2 Turbo 2 with a few mods. I had to get the car emission tested last Friday but the battery had crapped out so I replaced it before I took it to the "E" test (it passed). Later that same day I took it for a 20 minute drive before it was supposed to rain. Driving along under regular conditions, 30 mph, the engine just stopped running. I pulled over and waited a minute or two then tried it again and it ran. So of I went for about 30 seconds then the same thing. The engine died. Power to lights and everything else, but would not run. I have the shop manuals so I did failure to start test up to using the .33 microfarad capacitor in line, (will get the capacitor this week), to check the SMEC/harness. The ASD is OK no power going to the coil on cranking. I thought maybe a wire got nicked when I put the new battery in so I pulled the battery and checked the grounds and wires. All looked OK and I put the battery back in. So I thought I would crank it just to try it and the fuel pump 2 second primer burst came on so I turned it over and it ran for about 4 seconds then died. So I disconnected the - cable and put it back and the fuel pump primes when I turn the key to the on position but when cranking it won't start. Once it has been cranked the fuel pump will not prime unless I remove the battery cable and reconnect it. I hope some one has some ideas? *Note, I just purchased a SMEC for this car off eBay last week and am awaiting it's arrival. I don't want to put it in in case some thing is frying the SMEC. Many thanks in advance!!!! signed,
A frustrated Darren

[jforce]

dbl chk connections around the battery. there is some small hot leads that corrode and cause this. then the hall effect in the dist.after those,i would try the computer.

[Ricewannabe]

heh i am having the same problem check out my post No Spark NAJ has a ton of tests on my thread you can try. i replace my coil, pick up coil under the distributor cap, and just got done doing a new ignition switch!! YAY none of those worked. i am still praying that its a lose ground or something

[NAJ]

No power at + coil while cranking sounds like you lost the crank signal from the HEP.
Chances are you do not have power at the fuel pump and DG/BK wire at the injector harness either during cranking.
ASD will not be actuated by the controller until it sees a crank signal from the HEP.

NS-14A Fault Code 11 Distributor Reference Pick-Up

Turn ignition switch Off, then connect diagnostic read-out tool to engine harness connector.
Disconnect distributor reference pickup connector (black wire), then turn ignition switch to Run position.
Connect a jumper wire between reference pickup coil connector cavities 2 and 3. Make and break this connection several times.
Enter system into Diagnostic Mode and record all codes.
If code sequence is 88-12-54-55, proceed to Test 14 step B.
If code sequence is 88-11-12-54-55, proceed to Test 14 step C.
NOTE: Disregard fault code 54.


NS-14B Check 8 Volt Supply to DIST. Reference Pick-Up

With distributor reference pickup coil disconnected, connect a voltmeter between cavity 1 of connector and ground, then turn ignition switch to Run position.
If voltmeter reads at least 7 volts, replace distributor pickup coil. Before replacing coil, ensure terminals in distributor harness connector are not damaged.
If voltmeter indicates no voltage, locate and repair open in wire between terminal No. 1 and wiring harness splice.


NS-14C Reference Pick-Up Coil Signal Voltage

With distributor reference pickup coil disconnected, connect a voltmeter between cavities 2 and 3 of connector, then turn ignition switch to Run position.
If voltmeter reads is at least 4 volts, replace SMEC.
If voltmeter indicates no voltage, proceed to Test 14 step D.

NS-14D Distributor Pick-Up Harness Ground Circuit

With distributor reference pickup coil disconnected, connect a voltmeter between cavity 3 of connector and ground, then turn ignition switch to Run position.
If voltmeter reads at least 4 volts, locate and repair open in wire between cavity 2 and wiring harness splice.
If voltmeter indicates no voltage, proceed to Test 14 step E.

NS-14E Pick-Up Harness Control Circuit

With distributor pick-up electrical connector disconnected and ignition switch in Off position, connect an ohmmeter between SMEC 60-way electrical connector terminal No. 47 and terminal No. 3 of distributor pick-up connector.
If ohmmeter does not indicate continuity, locate and repair open in wire between terminal No. 47 of 60-way electrical connector and distributor pick-up connector.
If ohmmeter indicates continuity, replace SMEC.
NOTE: Before replacing the SMEC, check the N7 terminal in cavity No. 47 of the 60-way connector to make sure it is not damaged causing a poor connection.

[ShelbyZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricewannabe heh i am having the same problem check out my post No Spark NAJ has a ton of tests on my thread you can try. i replace my coil, pick up coil under the distributor cap, and just got done doing a new ignition switch!! YAY none of those worked. i am still praying that its a lose ground or something

Yup!! I did read your post and was stymied(stunned) at the technical expertise of NAJ! Hence the comment about NAJ in my original post. I was thinking you tried a lot of different things and weren't having any luck. I hope you have better luck than I.
Darren

[ShelbyZ]

NAJ, many thanks for your time! I am working 12 hour shifts the next couple of days and it will be Thursday when I can run your suggestions. I do not have a plug in diagnostic tool but being an 1988 I can access the codes by turning the key on and off, is this good enough? Also I made up a .33 microfarad cap with test leads at work tonight, should I still run the test the shop manual recommends with it? Thank you kindly again and will endeavour to test at first available time,
Darren

[NAJ]

I remember seeing the capacitor in diagnostics for carburated cars with a spark control computer but not with MPFI.
From everything you stated it sounds as though the ASD circuit is fine but to verify locate the underhood diagnostic connector and with the key on/engine off ground the DB/YL wire,(just recently found out this only works up to 1990 even though FSM states differently) the ASD will be actuated and you can check for power at the + coil and DG/BK wire at the injector harness, also the fuel pump should run constantly, if all of this is present the ASD circuit is fine. Remove your ground wire and while cranking the engine check for power at the + coil, if it is not present cranking check the HEP circuit as I posted.
If you need wiring let me know.

[Sittn86]

Since the problem started while it was raining, I'd be inclined to think that it's a bad connection.

[ShelbyZ]

I haven't had much time to check further. First I would like to thank everyone and especially NAJ for your input! Sittn86 it wasn't raining when it happened. I was trying to get it in my garage before it rained. A few updates: the shop manuals for 1988 FWD Chrysler cars shows the capacitors test for the failure to start on my model of Daytona. I have the capacitor now but will most certainly try the flow chart NAJ has set out first. I had a moment to turn the key on and off 3 times but this time I had a code 11 to start the sequence. No other codes except 12, 33 (A/C was removed) and 55. So it looks like step C is where I will start. A couple of questions about conductors. Test between cavities 2 and 3 of connector, are you referring to one of the 2 HEP pick up plugs off the distributor or the 14 pin plug at the SMEC? If one of the plugs from pickup, which one? Also I have the casing off the ASDR and can manually energize the fuel pump by forcing the contacts. I am leaning toward the HEP. Thanks in advance,
Darren

[Sittn86]

Sorry, I misread your post.

[NAJ]

Black HEP Connector is the Crank Reference signal, the Gray HEP connector is the Fuel Sync signal.
They are referring to cavities 2 and 3 of the HEP Connector on the harness side.
In my previous post I gave instructions for actuating the ASD Relay.

[specialK]

I had almost the same problem! turned out the Oxygen sensor connector melted to the exhaust manifold! : This Grounded out the GRN/BLK wire that provides power to the coil, and other major componants.

just a thought

[ShelbyZ]

No worries Sittn86 I was just trying to be clear in order for people to help narrow the problem down. I will check diag. connector today with jumper to rule out ASD circuit. Then HEP cicuit. Will let you know what I find. Thanks,
Darren

[ShelbyZ]

OK here is where I am at: I jumped the Diag connector to ground and ASD circuit is good. Fuel pump on 12.6v at the coil. NAJ I am a little confused as to the difference between the flow chart and your step NS-14,C. It says connect VM between cavities 2 and 3 of connector, switch to run. If voltage is at least 4v replace SMEC. Is cavity 1- GY/BK, 2- OR, 3- BK/LB? of the black distributor connector? With ignition in on position GY/BK connector reads 5.0v. The OR connector (to grnd) reads 9.12v. The flow chart says , go to TEST NS-9A part 2 of 2. I don't have the diagnostic tool it mentions. I have a SMEC and am not sure if the SBEC connectors are the same? I have been reading the diagrams from your other post with Ricewannabe. With the ignition turned on I tested for voltage between the OR and BK/LB of the black distributor connector and it reads 9.12 volts. I am sincerely hoping you aren't going to tell me my SMEC is toast and you are going to tell me the problem "IS" my HEP! I await your knowledge and wisdom sort of patiently...NOT! LOL!
Darren

[NAJ]

99% of the time it is the HEP or the connector integrity(loose, damaged, corroded)
If it is the HEP, DO NOT bend the wiring down the side of the distributor as the factory had it or you will damage the internal wirng.
Unfortunatly I do not know how to test this circuit without a scan tool as Chrysler scanners are readily available to me.
Alldata is not showing a pinout for the HEP connectors.
I have the Powertrain Diagnostics Manual for 1990 and the wire colors and HEP connectors are the same, the only difference will be the controller cavities.
I am going to post the 1990 diagnostics, the SMEC connector pinout and 1988 HEP wiring.
Just need a little time to scan and post.