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Engine Management, Fuel, Spark, EGTs, and Air/Fuel Ratios This forum includes general electrical, modification, tuning, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of all components mentioned above including SMEC, SBEC, Logic Modules, aftermarket engine management, etc. Nitrous oxide posts go in here. This is the place

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:00 PM   #16
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Ok- ill get back to that in a sec- thank you for all the info- going to go back to that after this new problem.

So, today I put in a new radiator and thermostat. Prior to this the heat worked like it should. I refilled the system and ran it with the heat in a bit to try to get the air out and now my heat is only coming out of the defrost vents. ?? What did I do wrong?
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:04 PM   #17
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Ok, no it's the ac vet, everything only out of the defrost vents
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:51 PM   #18
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Alright- cam timing seems ok, timing is where it should be, Hall effect is ok, no overheating now I've put a thermostat in it, the o2 sensor look brand new. Just got a vac gauge tonight. And thank you so much for the info and link- that completely uncomplicated it for me!

BUT- otherwise, no improvement. A dodge guy at the parts store was saying it sounds like a fuel delivery (starved or dumping too much in) problem. Not sure what else to check when I get time Friday beside the vacuum. Where is the map sensor located? I wasn't looking to hard today but didn't see anything that looked like..?

Thank you so much guys for answering my billion questions!
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:16 AM   #19
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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o2 sensor is easy to check with a dvom. It may look new but that doesn't really mean its working as it should. Did you check to make sure your vacuum connection at the firewall that goes inside the car is connected? That could cause your problem with the vents not changing.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:41 AM   #20
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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As stated above your HVAC Mode Door issue is caused by a lack of vacuum to the HVAC control head.
Vacuum runs from underhood into the passenger compartment.
All modes require vacuum to operate except Defrost which is failsafe for safety reasons.
The vacuum line should be on the left side of the car and should run by or off of the brake booster and thru the firewall.

As far as your other issue with fuel it brings you right back to a faulty injector as we spoke about before.
Unfortunately I cannot tell you for sure if it is bad or good without seeing it in person.
Back in the day they were common problems on the low pressure TBI.

As far as checking your O2 that is a good idea once you know ALL other basics are ok.
O2 only reads oxygen content in the exhaust and is only a fuel trimmer.
If there is another basic issue that will cause the engine to be rich or lean that will cause O2 voltage to read rich or lean.
Usual symptoms of a faulty O2 are decreased fuel economy and increased CO emissions.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:08 AM   #21
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Sooo... I went to hook up the vac gauge today and one of the hoses crumbled. So I spent today replacing all the vacuum lines I could find (per the diagrams). It's all fresh now. I didn't do the booster line because it seemed fine and it's on there super tight with those fiddly snap rings. I left that alone for now, but did every other line on the vacuum diagram. Finding all the right hose took all day, most the shop were out of the right sizes :) i also cleaned all the accessable electrical connectors.. anyway...

Quick question on that- there is a check valve going from the line with the pcv to the back side if the TB- what direction should it be allowing vacuum? Wasn't sure I got it right.

I stil have my problem though. It is running pretty well in park or neutral, no puffs or miss sounds out of the exhaust, darn near perfect .... But it's really rough and still has the stumble in gear (drive or reverse). It even stalled when I shifted into drive once and at crusing speed it feels, I don't know- choppy? It gets more rough like when you turn the wheel at stand still, or turn on ac or something else that draws power. My rpms drop down to 700 and stay there for a bit, then might bump up, then it stumbles, then back down to 700 or so- no matter if something power draining is operating or not. But in park or neutral turning the wheel and so on doesn't affect it ... I talked to a few people around here that are convinced it isn't a fuel system problem if it only does it in gear.. So I'm stumped. Torque converter problem, sensor to do with the trans? Would an injector, pump or regulator problem only be a obvious in gear?

As for the vents- I played with it a bit, it works for a few if the fan speed is lower, turn it to high and it goes to de frost until you turn it off again for a while. No disconnected lines. I didn't replace this lines yet either, would it help or would it be something else?

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Old 02-24-2013, 01:32 AM   #22
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinzWelch View Post
Sooo... I went to hook up the vac gauge today and one of the hoses crumbled. So I spent today replacing all the vacuum lines I could find (per the diagrams). It's all fresh now. I didn't do the booster line because it seemed fine and it's on there super tight with those fiddly snap rings. I left that alone for now, but did every other line on the vacuum diagram. Finding all the right hose took all day, most the shop were out of the right sizes :) i also cleaned all the accessable electrical connectors.. anyway...

Quick question on that- there is a check valve going from the line with the pcv to the back side if the TB- what direction should it be allowing vacuum? Wasn't sure I got it right.

I stil have my problem though. It is running pretty well in park or neutral, no puffs or miss sounds out of the exhaust, darn near perfect .... But it's really rough and still has the stumble in gear (drive or reverse). It even stalled when I shifted into drive once and at crusing speed it feels, I don't know- choppy? It gets more rough like when you turn the wheel at stand still, or turn on ac or something else that draws power. My rpms drop down to 700 and stay there for a bit, then might bump up, then it stumbles, then back down to 700 or so- no matter if something power draining is operating or not. But in park or neutral turning the wheel and so on doesn't affect it ... I talked to a few people around here that are convinced it isn't a fuel system problem if it only does it in gear.. So I'm stumped. Torque converter problem, sensor to do with the trans? Would an injector, pump or regulator problem only be a obvious in gear?

As for the vents- I played with it a bit, it works for a few if the fan speed is lower, turn it to high and it goes to de frost until you turn it off again for a while. No disconnected lines. I didn't replace this lines yet either, would it help or would it be something else?
Hope this helps you determine where to put your Vacuum Tee and gauge.

After checking the vacuum, either cap off the port that led to the gauge, leave the gauge hooked up, or replace the line. Open vacuum ports are bad.

(Note: Please excuse my paint skills, Picasso I am not)
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:46 AM   #23
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Hey! Thanks! Yes, I figured that out today- but I'm gonna Save your picture to my phone for future reference. The problem I was having was there is a one way check valve in a line off of the tee from the pcv line. It goes from a tee in the pcv line to the side/back if the TB..
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:50 AM   #24
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Ahh, ok. TBI is something I've never owned, I don't think I've ever seen one of those. You'll want to put the gauge between the Check valve and the throttle body.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:01 AM   #25
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Any engine/driveabilty issue will be worse in gear because in gear a load is added to the engine where there is no load in park/neutral.

That check valve is not in the PCV line, it is in the canister purge line and the check valve has to be installed so it allows vacuum on the canister.
(Suck thru side towards the TB)

The blower motor should have no effect on your HVAC mode doors.
Any problem with mode doors is vacuum related.
If you are going to defrost with the blower motor speed increases it would only be because engine vacuum is lost due to a higher load so vacuum must be low to start.

The vacuum source for the HVAC comes right from your brake booster.
Tee your vacuum gauge inline with the HVAC line from the booster and check vacuum in park/neutral, in gear, with blower on, etc.
Vacuum should stay between 16-20" HG under all of those conditions.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:23 AM   #26
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Just a quick update- I think I found part of the problem. I found the stumble- turns out I had a defective spark plug that didn't make it self apperent until the insulator started rattling around the contact. I got a platnum set and no more stumble so far. Must have just come loose last night after doing the lines. It seemed fine all the other times I checked it.

Next- It seems I have a vacuum leak at the booster- actually the plastic outlet part for the vacuum connections, because the booster checks out using the brake pedal- but I inadvertently tapped that part reaching over it and it hissed. Would this be the reason for the blower only going out the vents when on full blast, and part of my vacuum troubles?

Now, before this, I had the vac gauge teed in where I already had to make a connection on the manifold/pcv line (see my awful drawing- sorry used my phone to draw it :) ) the pic where I hooked it up, as well as the MAP line. It was reading a steady 10.5- that's subtracting 1.5 for the needle being at 1.5 ambient. When I blipped the gas the needle shot around for a split second, then down and slowly up to about 11.5. Same steady reading at the MAP. Put it in drive and the needle flipped around then back to 10.5. I disconnected it and was poking around which was when I noticed the hiss from the booster outlet. I capped off the vaccuum to the booster and started it up- still rough idle, not much change.... It started raining so I didn't check the vaccuum again with the booster plugged yet to see if there was an improvement there. Will do in the morning. Al so I guess I'll recheck cam timing since maybe I didn't do it right the first time- sorry, still learning! But I guess low steady vacuum can indicate bad valve timing and thus cam timing?

So could there be an additional leak causing the rough idle if its low when I check it with the booster plugged?

Oh- NAJ- thank you- I didn't think about checking that line for the HVAC, I will do that next too!
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:25 AM   #27
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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If you found a vacuum leak at the booster correct that first, that is where the HVAC gets its vacuum source and the vacuum source going to the booster is direct from the manifold so that will affect all vacuum systems.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:19 PM   #28
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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I disconnected the booster and capped off that line and am still getting about 12.5 in the vacuum. When I started it, the idle hunted around a bit before it smoothed out too. I wanted to reverify the cam timing since I'm not entirely sure I did it right the first time, so I'm turning the crankshaft clockwise and it got a couple partial turns and now it won't go any further with the same amount of force. I don't want to put too much force on it ... Should it be that difficult?
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:06 PM   #29
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Haha... Ok scratch that- I'm an idiot. I put in neutral and it turned. Still not dead certain I'm getting right, it looks off toward the back slightly now, but didn't before.


Here's a wierd problem though. When i started the car i had 20 on pressure with the needle vibrating, the car did this wierd idle adjustment then dropped pressure to 12.5 I'm still only getting 12.5 dead steady vacuum, but I unplugged the temp sensor to double check timing and the vacuum shot up to 17.5 but with the needle vibrating and moving ever so slightly between the 18&17 marks. Plug the temp sensor back vacuum is back down to 12.5.

EDIT: At the MAP it's 19.5 but doing that wierd needle vibration and movement with the temp sensor plugged in.

Double edit- I'm gaining a bit of vacuum dosconnecting the brake booster- but today I plugged it back in and it didn't go down any like it did yesterday. Can't find a leak at the booster or hvac lines- could this he a bad booster check valve as a side issue?

What does that mean?

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Old 02-26-2013, 08:48 AM   #30
Re: 88 Omni, Running issues, Need some advice.  
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Without seeing the car diagnostics are difficult.
Normally I would say that if vacuum returns to a normal reading with the CTS disconnected that ignition timing was incorrect.
With the CTS disconnected ignition timing goes to base, with the CTS plugged in the controller is advancing timing according to operating conditions.

I would not worry about a slight/quick needle vibration I would be more concerned about how you have 19.5" HG at the Map and only 12" HG at the booster.
1)When you checked Map vacuum did you tee into the vacuum line?
2)Is your HVAC still going to defrost by itself?
3)Is your distributor housing parallel to the block?
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