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Engine Management, Fuel, Spark, EGTs, and Air/Fuel Ratios This forum includes general electrical, modification, tuning, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of all components mentioned above including SMEC, SBEC, Logic Modules, aftermarket engine management, etc. Nitrous oxide posts go in here. This is the place

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Old 02-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #1
Question "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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I've seen in some vehicles where the owner has modified a late model 2.4 ignition(or equivalent(Neon, etc) to work with the late 1980s 2.2. Or maybe an aftermarket system?
This idea is great in that the system would be much more efficient as well as reliable. However, I have NO CLUE how it's done.
I have the 1987 GLHS#0896(Charger) and, would LOVE to figure this out and have the direct fire ignition system.
There's obviously a crank sensor mounting that must take place. And surely there's wiring modifications or even wiring replacement that would be necessary.
Not to mention the control unit issues that would arise as a result of basically "deleting" the factory system(s).
If anyone has any info or links to info about this modification, I would be very grateful.
Thanks, in advance
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:42 PM   #2
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Are you referring to a cap on plug setup like chevy uses? I like the idea.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:57 PM   #3
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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It's actually more of a "coil pack" type of ignition system where the distributor is deleted, the hole plugged and the ignition is created by use of a crank sensor(or cam sensor).
Pretty much like all of the OBD2 vehicles of today(and the last 10-15 years or so).
Actually, Here's a picture of the "MOD" I saw:



It's a pretty small pic and I forgot where the heck I got it from. So, investigating on my own hasn't been good.
If anyone has ideas on how this could be achieved, I'm open to suggestions.
I'd LOVE to figure it out.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:58 PM   #4
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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There is some info on this thread: http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...y-written.html
Discusses how to do it using Megasquirt.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:07 PM   #5
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Yup, using a MegaSquirt it's easy. Can even go a step further and run coil on plug.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #6
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Thanks "83scamp", I subscribed to that thread immediately! I'll have to read it later when I have the time but, from the small amount I have read, it looks like the info I was searching for. Thanks again!
But still, I'd love anymore info that anyone might have as well!
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #7
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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I don't have any info on the car besides it's a GLHs omni. Took this at SDAC 2012.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:57 PM   #8
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Here's a quick setup I rigged up in my truck last year. Neon coilpack, running off a MegaSquirt.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:30 PM   #9
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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WOW! I've been led to the "Megasquirt" site time and time again. it's hard to believe that I hadn't heard of this before!
From the preliminary reading I've done at their site, it would appear that they've got this thing all figured out.
It appears that the folks at Megasquirt have already gone through all of the "hit and miss" errors and published their findings there. It's pretty cool; and VERY interesting.

Here's a link to them(it's an EFI based system initially but, there's links to their Ignition controls too);
http://www.megasquirt.info/

Oh yeah, here's a link to the "DIY Auto Tune" site. They've got EVERYTHING you'll need for the Megasquirt systems:
http://www.diyautotune.com/

I just got to thinking and, with all of the Air/Fuel upgrades and modification I'll be doing to the GLHS, it just made sense to search for a more efficient ignition system.
Anyone who's owned a TD has experienced the "No Spark" issue on a cold morning from the failed HEP!(lol) I'd be willing to bet that there's several of us who've got more than a few bucks tied up in replacing these "failure waiting to happen" HEP units!

So, to completely delete this "weak link" in the system, I wanted to find a "direct fire" type of system. And, it would appear that I have with the Megasquirt. I've also found out that it's fully PROGRAMMABLE; NICE!

So, until I find a "better" choice, I'll head forward with the Megasquirt.

Thank you to everyone that fed me info on this!
And, if there's anyone out there with even better information or, knows of a better system, please let me know of it.
Thanks!!!
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Last edited by signsoflife22; 02-23-2013 at 09:36 PM.. Reason: Sharing info. as I educate myself!
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:36 AM   #10
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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I'd recommend the MS3 (MegaSquirt III) if you want a better system. MS1 is a really low budget setup. MS2 is decent, but you'll just wish you had bought MS3 the whole time.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:47 AM   #11
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Yeah, in reading about the various systems available, it appears that the MSIII would be the way to go for me. It just seems to better suit a "control freak" like me. I can oversee everything with the MSIII and, that interests me very much.

I'm partial to this type of set up(it just "looks" cleaner):


Plus, it'll give me a good use for the threaded holes left behind by the A/C bracket I've replaced with the "delete" bracket.

SWEET!!!

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Old 02-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #12
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83scamp View Post
There is some info on this thread: http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...y-written.html
Discusses how to do it using Megasquirt.
yes MS has the functionality.. but

seems like it shouldnt be too hard to wire/program up a circuit to:
1. listen (passively) to both Turbo HEP output signals
&/or
2. listen to crank position sensor output
then
3. drive a dual coil pack (wasted spark), or 4 coil-on-plug modules

could this be done with e.g. an Arduino??
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:32 PM   #13
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitTurbo View Post
I don't have any info on the car besides it's a GLHs omni. Took this at SDAC 2012.
This car has standalone ems setup. Electromotive tecgt with 60-2 crank trigger wheel. Batchfire setup as it doesnt have a cam wheel as well. Since pic was taken we have removed the original engine harness and plugged distributor hole. Electromotive is a very accurate system.

System itself was about $2k. Installation and started tune was another $2k.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:49 PM   #14
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Here is how engine bay looks today.

You can see the crank trigger wheel in picture #2
Attached Thumbnails
"Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?-engine-bay-1.jpg   "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?-engine-bay-2.jpg   "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?-engine-bay-3.jpg   "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?-engine-bay-4.jpg  
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:18 PM   #15
Re: "Direct Fire" ignition on a 1987 GLHS 2.2 TII?  
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Interesting
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