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Engine Management, Fuel, Spark, EGTs, and Air/Fuel Ratios This forum includes general electrical, modification, tuning, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of all components mentioned above including SMEC, SBEC, Logic Modules, aftermarket engine management, etc. Nitrous oxide posts go in here. This is the place

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Old 02-24-2013, 12:28 AM   #1
TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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84 600 convertible, 2.2 T1
Runs pig rich...burns your nose, real nasty.
Does not like any idle below 1000, misses when at op temp.
Just repaired the AIC motor. Commutator was dirty.
Is there an Idle relearn proceedure?
should I drill out the tps screw holes to get the required.16v at idle?
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:10 AM   #2
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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TPS voltage will be anywhere between .30 - 1.00 volts and will not cause a rich running condition.
Voltage too high at idle would only cause the AIS to step out waiting for decel.

If you are running that rich on an 84 you need to be looking at....
Fuel Pressure
Coolant Temp Sensor Voltage
Map Sensor Voltage and Vacuum
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:38 AM   #3
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ View Post
TPS voltage will be anywhere between .30 - 1.00 volts and will not cause a rich running condition.
Voltage too high at idle would only cause the AIS to step out waiting for decel.

If you are running that rich on an 84 you need to be looking at....
Fuel Pressure
Coolant Temp Sensor Voltage
Map Sensor Voltage and Vacuum
Thanks NAJ. what would you suggest to monitor these systems? Just a DVOM, or is there a spot for an OBD1 cable that I can use on something like Tuner Pro? Is there a chart here for the values?
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:21 AM   #4
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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There are voltage charts and you can backprobe the sensor connectors to read voltage with a digital voltmeter.

CTS is only a 2 wire connection so obvious on how to backprobe.
On the Map connector you need to backprobe the DG/RD and and BK/LB wires.

Be Sure you check vacuum to the Map when the problem is present.
You will need to tee a vacuum gauge inline at the Map sensor.
When you check Map voltage you need to look at voltage with Key On/Engine Off(Baro Reading)and Key On Engine Running(Actual Manifold Pressure)

BACKPROBING THE CTS




MAP SENSOR(LATER MODEL SHOWN)


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Old 02-25-2013, 08:33 AM   #5
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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Cool, Thanks!
Will post my findings.
I just realized that the TB may need to be cleaned also, the AIC motor is working, but the engine is not responding to the changes in aic position.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:01 PM   #6
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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. MAP voltage is 1.38@ around 13 hg....Little jumpy.
coolant is .94v @185*..not sure if im doing that right.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:29 PM   #7
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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MAP volt looks right-on ;

CTS is *way* off ..
check to make sure it's getting its +5V ..
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:22 PM   #8
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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Thanks bro...will check that. is it normal to have in the neighborhood of 10-12 hg at idle on these?
Been wrenching for 27 years, but new to these turbos.
This is a car my wife grew up riding in, my Father inlaw's first new car...trying to get it running the way it should.
he said it always ran like this from new, and always had to take it to a referee for smog checks because its a turbo...I think he is full of it, and has a bad memory...and they would not have been able to sell it in California for that matter.
I relly appreciate all the help here guys! thanks
Edit: Ok, just went out and checked the cts. Unhooked, it gets 5.5v to the connector. Connect the power only to the cts, and get 5.5 through to the output post of the CTS. here is where it gets hokey...Hook the signal wire up, and the power side reads 0.65 and the signal side says 0.07. This all while the car was just shut off from a 1/2 long idle...definately up to temp. key was on during test.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:46 PM   #9
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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The slider cam is probably wore out. 2.2 should have 15-17" of HG at idle. Might be a good time to upgrade to a roller cam.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:35 PM   #10
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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Something to consider. Will have to pop the cover and look. Any suggestions on which cam, and cost of conversion? I am kinda a stock type of guy, and don want to stray into anything that will not work on the factory calibration. speed density cars are a pain when it comes to heavy mods.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:24 PM   #11
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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GLHNSLHT2 has really helped outGLHNSLHT2 has really helped out
Well the 1988 2.2 TBI cam is the best stock roller.

I love speed density, maybe it's just the mopar system and the fact that you can tune it easily. But a wideband a/f gauge and a boost gauge is pretty much all you need.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:47 PM   #12
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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Cool, will consider. The engine is a low mile reman, andnmy Pops in law changed the oilmevery 3k.
I like speed density too, gives you more flexibility with CAI, and still pass smog in Ca.
My Magnum is SD.....reallyvsimple to deal with.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:45 AM   #13
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslleary View Post
Thanks bro...will check that. is it normal to have in the neighborhood of 10-12 hg at idle on these?
a healthy engine with correct cam timing, idle speed, ignition timing should be up to 17-18"

it is very common for a mechanic or even experienced TD owner to install a cam "one tooth off",
which - depending on which way it's off - can kill idle quality and vacuum

so add 'check cam timing' to yur troubleshooting list

it's not too hard to pop the valvecover off to inspect the cam,,,
and a good time to upgrade to 88+ roller cam (and PT lifters),
and 89+ "one-piece gasket" valve cover.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslleary View Post
Edit: Ok, just went out and checked the cts. Unhooked, it gets 5.5v to the connector. Connect the power only to the cts, and get 5.5 through to the output post of the CTS. here is where it gets hokey...Hook the signal wire up, and the power side reads 0.65 and the signal side says 0.07. This all while the car was just shut off from a 1/2 long idle...definately up to temp. key was on during test.
yes something seems hokey there...
power side should stay near 5V even when hooked to sensor...
either sensor is bad (most likely),
or there's a problem in the wiring harness/connectors or (less likely) ECM

I would be interested in whats happening to the 5V supply to e.g. the TPS ?
if that's dropping too, or not ?
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:32 AM   #14
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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When checking the CTS you want to start with a cold engine and watch voltage as engine temps increase until the fan cycles on.

Engine vacuum needs to be 16-20" HG @ idle.
Low Vac to the Map = Rich Running Condition.
Possible Causes...
Cam/Ignition Timing
Vacuum Leaks
Worn Internal Engine Components

CHECKING CAM TIMING
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...n-84-95-a.html

IGNITION TIMING


REAL TIME CTS VOLTAGE CHART


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Old 02-26-2013, 08:23 AM   #15
Re: TPS wont go lower than 1.03 volts  
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Allright! Well It looks like I have my work cut out for Me! Im hoping that the majority of this problem is stemming from the CTS...all though, I wouldnt mind pulling the engine and doin a once over and clean up the engine compartment. I will report what I find, Thanks guys!
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