Staged extra Injector control + other goodies design. Input wanted

[DblTrbl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joryn The most expensive part of this whole thing will probably be the pressure sensor that I want to incorporate. The Map sensor input is alright, but being limited to 15 psi is not good enough, plus I want something accurate. The price on most of the pcb mount ones I've been looking at is around 20-30 bucks a unit.

May as well use a 3 bar map sensor because you may eventually go with a 3bar cal anyway. No need to mount the pressure sensor on the pcb, just a connector for the map sensor.

[Ondonti]

this would be great as a secondary fuel system running toluol or something like that. Have the ability to run high psi at the track and not worry about whats in your stock tank.

[Putter]

Happy to see this brought back from the dead.

[TurboShadowES]

im still intrested for shure. dont count us out!

[Joryn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DblTrbl May as well use a 3 bar map sensor because you may eventually go with a 3bar cal anyway. No need to mount the pressure sensor on the pcb, just a connector for the map sensor.

The price of a 3 bar is probably my main deterent right now. Although true enough it could be a good investment for down the line. The 3 bar is just a circuit with a pressure sensor already built into it, and it goes for 3 times the price. If I'm smart about it I could build a 3 bar outta whatever sensor I choose hehe. But that sounds a little tooo much like work

The secondary fuel source is definitely an option as well. All you would need is a secondary fuel pump to source the injectors. As far as the controller is concerned it doesn't realy matter what fluid is spraying out the injectors. All it does is monitor the stats of the engine and increase said fluid to keep everything happy. Perhaps i should rename this the staged secondary fuel source controller

[tarkus1]

How about just a 0-5v input. Wire it to the map or if using a wideband like the LM-1, wire it to its output to control off the wideband O2.

[Joryn]

I've been thinking about that secondary fuel source idea a little bit more and it's starting to grow on me here. There is nothing so far that says that cold start injectors need to be used on this controller, in theory you could hook up any sort of misting nozzle and it would work similarly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarkus1 How about just a 0-5v input. Wire it to the map or if using a wideband like the LM-1, wire it to its output to control off the wideband O2.

While this would work as a simple pressure switch/air/fuel switch I'm looking for a little bit more reliability then that. There's a lot more going on then just how much boost is running or how rich/lean you are. Knowing that the car is in High boost, And is running leaner then desired AND is showing slight signs of knock retard would allow the controller to accurately give fuel when it's needed. At least that's the theory.

I Am hoping that some of you might be able to lend me a hand on some things here actually. I know that there is a number of you out there with some electrical/electronics know-how and I was hoping to pool off of that. The driver for these injectors, boost control solenoid etc, cannot come directly from the micro (it can't support the current required). I was hoping that someone might be able to help me design (or just flat out design) some sort of injector driver that I could use for this thing. i'm nto too familiar with what the ECU would use, but something along those lines would probably work here as well.

In addition to a driver for the injectors, I'd like a driver for a boost control solenoid as well. This wouldn't need to be as high power as the injectors but again I doubt the micro itself would be able to handle this.

Anyone interested in helping post it up Many hands make light work. Thanks for all the help and interest thus far. It's been very useful.

[Putter]

Pull apart some old eec-v ford processors, all the drivers are in there, coil/ injectors etc etc. Get the number off them.

[Joryn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putter Pull apart some old eec-v ford processors, all the drivers are in there, coil/ injectors etc etc. Get the number off them.

Where should I be looking to get these? Any ford fuel injected car or is there something specific I should be looking at?

Also is there a reason I shouldn't be looking at the mopar powermodule's for parts as well?

thanks for the info, keep it coming

[Aries_Turbo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joryn The price of a 3 bar is probably my main deterent right now. Although true enough it could be a good investment for down the line. The 3 bar is just a circuit with a pressure sensor already built into it, and it goes for 3 times the price. If I'm smart about it I could build a 3 bar outta whatever sensor I choose hehe. But that sounds a little tooo much like work

the megasquirt guys have access to cheap 3 and 4 bar map sensors. I dont know the part numbers but you can get that info from either rodney at www.rs-autosport.com or www.msefi.com

Brian

[Joryn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo the megasquirt guys have access to cheap 3 and 4 bar map sensors. I dont know the part numbers but you can get that info from either rodney at www.rs-autosport.com or www.msefi.com Brian

Thanks Brian, this is really good info. The sensor that he is using is actually the same as the ones I was looking at on digikey heh, so that's reassuring. I wonder if he would be willing to give out part numbers on the one's he is using. Regardless I'm thinking a 4 bar setup would be great on this thing. Good to 44 PSI now that's cool.

[Putter]

I just said the ford processors as I know for fact that all the main drivers are in there and have low failure rates.

I'm sure there's lots of drivers in a power module that would work, but I think they're potted making them harder to remove of course, as the ford PCM's are not potted any more than a thin coating of stuff and the drivers bolt to the case for a heatsync, like an amplifer - super easy to get to.

[Aries_Turbo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joryn Thanks Brian, this is really good info. The sensor that he is using is actually the same as the ones I was looking at on digikey heh, so that's reassuring. I wonder if he would be willing to give out part numbers on the one's he is using. Regardless I'm thinking a 4 bar setup would be great on this thing. Good to 44 PSI now that's cool.

No problem. glad to help. I bet if you asked on the msefi forum someone has the exact part number. however the forum is going to be down for upgrades so you might wanna ask soon. I bet if you told rodney what you were doing, hed give you the number cause i dont think he uses anything much different that the DIY megasquirt guys. yeah 4 bar would be sweet.

Brian

[Joryn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo No problem. glad to help. I bet if you asked on the msefi forum someone has the exact part number. however the forum is going to be down for upgrades so you might wanna ask soon. I bet if you told rodney what you were doing, hed give you the number cause i dont think he uses anything much different that the DIY megasquirt guys. yeah 4 bar would be sweet. Brian

Rodney is a great guy He's given me the part numbers for the 3 and 4 bar which are pressure sensors from Freescale...who are more then willing to give out free samples if you only want a small quantity of parts hehe. So I've got 15 sensors on their way, 5 each in 36, 44 and 58 PSI ranges That should definitely cover me for that side of things anyways.

I guess I'm going to have to go to the jy sometime soon to see if I cant find and tear apart a ford controller. Anyone know the theory behind these injector control drivers? ie: are they jsut relays, or power FETS or what? Once again any info is good info

[Putter]

The injector drivers are just good old transistors, but they are big enough to hande injectors, and one will do a few amps for the coil.

Fords do use high impedance inj though so a dodge fuel injector may burn out a ford driver eventually.

Also if you find the pulse width modulated blower controllers, they have a heatsync and transistor that will handle around 20amps continuous, they're quite large.