Homemade methanol injection

[Screamin4banger]

What type of lift pump? - If you want to run water or water/meth, you can use a freshwater pump like in boats or RV's

Can't I run direct power to the pump with a switch when I decide to play? - Sure,to turn the system on and off... but the spray needs to come on at the right time... use a pressure switch for that. (cut the boost back with it off)

Do I gravity feed the pump from a resevoir and that pressurizeses the meth mix to the intercooler hose? - you don't have to gravity feed them, but yeah, you got the idea

Meth injecter will go before the tb correct? - yes. doesn't need to be an injector. can be a nozzle. exactly where is hotly debated, some say right by the TB, some say at least a foot away. One member has his shooting directly into his intake runners - its really cool - but not your average injection set-up

what stainliess line should I get. - none. you don't need to run pure meth

BOTTOM LINE: there are a plenty of home-brew kits out there that have proven successful for the people that made them. they dont all work the same way. because of that... there is alot of debate on how these things should go together.

The first thing you should decide is why you are doing it... supplemental fuel or to cool the air charge? or both? If it is supplemental fuel, then you wont be turning it on and off unless you have it rigged in with a boostcontroller... If it is for cooling your air charge, then water is sufficient. But since water doesn't burn, a mix of water and meth (alchohol absorbs water) fits the bill.

whenever a liguid evaporates, it absorbs heat as it changes phase (thats how a/c works) so you inject it in the upper IC tube... as the liquid evaporates, it draws the heat out of the air to create a denser charge. Here's where the debate heats up.... If you position the spray nozzle far away from the TB, it gives the mix more time to evaporate and cool the air... but, many put their BOV in the upper IC tube... cant have a bov blowing water/meth all over... so they put it right in front of the TB. well it still works to cool the charge and they get more power cause they have this extra fuel entering... well, i'm sure a debate will spring up and you'll find out...lol

anyway... homemade kits run the gambit from a windshield washer pump and squirter to multiple pressure switches running multiple solenoids....
Or just buy a Devils Own and be done...lol


The kit I am assembling includes 2 pressure switches and solenoids, 1 pump, 1 pressure tank (optional), 1 reservoir, different flowing nozzles for experimentation.


There is a great site out there to show you exactly how to do it... i just forgot where it is

EDIT: I just KNOW somebodies going to debate everything I just said even though I tried to keep it very GENERAL

[jforce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger What type of lift pump? - If you want to run water or water/meth, you can use a freshwater pump like in boats or RV's Can't I run direct power to the pump with a switch when I decide to play? - Sure,to turn the system on and off... but the spray needs to come on at the right time... use a pressure switch for that. (cut the boost back with it off) Do I gravity feed the pump from a resevoir and that pressurizeses the meth mix to the intercooler hose? - you don't have to gravity feed them, but yeah, you got the idea Meth injecter will go before the tb correct? - yes. doesn't need to be an injector. can be a nozzle. exactly where is hotly debated, some say right by the TB, some say at least a foot away. One member has his shooting directly into his intake runners - its really cool - but not your average injection set-up what stainliess line should I get. - none. you don't need to run pure meth BOTTOM LINE: there are a plenty of home-brew kits out there that have proven successful for the people that made them. they dont all work the same way. because of that... there is alot of debate on how these things should go together. The first thing you should decide is why you are doing it... supplemental fuel or to cool the air charge? or both? If it is supplemental fuel, then you wont be turning it on and off unless you have it rigged in with a boostcontroller... If it is for cooling your air charge, then water is sufficient. But since water doesn't burn, a mix of water and meth (alchohol absorbs water) fits the bill. whenever a liguid evaporates, it absorbs heat as it changes phase (thats how a/c works) so you inject it in the upper IC tube... as the liquid evaporates, it draws the heat out of the air to create a denser charge. Here's where the debate heats up.... If you position the spray nozzle far away from the TB, it gives the mix more time to evaporate and cool the air... but, many put their BOV in the upper IC tube... cant have a bov blowing water/meth all over... so they put it right in front of the TB. well it still works to cool the charge and they get more power cause they have this extra fuel entering... well, i'm sure a debate will spring up and you'll find out...lol anyway... homemade kits run the gambit from a windshield washer pump and squirter to multiple pressure switches running multiple solenoids.... Or just buy a Devils Own and be done...lol The kit I am assembling includes 2 pressure switches and solenoids, 1 pump, 1 pressure tank (optional), 1 reservoir, different flowing nozzles for experimentation. There is a great site out there to show you exactly how to do it... i just forgot where it is EDIT: I just KNOW somebodies going to debate everything I just said even though I tried to keep it very GENERAL

Water\meth kits are popular with diesels. Most are running over 40 lbs of boost,so the pump and injector(or whatever) needs to be strong enough to counter the boost pressure. Could be an issue with a homemade setup. Just my .02 cents.

[jforce]

Oh i forgot-You can use washer fluid! The blue stuff. Check out the ingredients.

[turbokid]

Hmmm thats cool
Now how does the pressure switch work? What is its point?
Why are using a selenoid? What type?
I am probably planning on using it as a play toy only to cool the air. I would use it as a fuel additive but I can't afford 87 right now let alone 87 + meth.
Can I use hp fuel line then instead of stainless lines?
So my set up will be Resevoir feeding the pump the to the lines going into the injector (or nozzle). I am only running 12lbs of boost currently. Soon I will get an intercooler on the car and possibly a blow off valve if my stocker poops out on me.
Will using the meth hurt my motor or will it just burn like gas?
I can go get the fresh water pump from the parts store right?
Sry for all the questions but this is quite intriguing and its something that I would like to do.
I looked into the devils own kit but at $220 its not in my budget.
I am working minimum wage right now, restoring a muscle car, paying for gas and having maybe 20 bucks left over for me to do something for the week
Thanks Q

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jforce Oh i forgot-You can use washer fluid! The blue stuff. Check out the ingredients.

yeah, I wouldn't. The winter stuff is supposed to be 50/50 water/meth but my buddy used to buy the "winter stuff" when he lived down south and every time he came home his windshield fluid would be frozen. How could you expect strict quality control from a $1.50 jug of window wash?

[jforce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger yeah, I wouldn't. The winter stuff is supposed to be 50/50 water/meth but my buddy used to buy the "winter stuff" when he lived down south and every time he came home his windshield fluid would be frozen. How could you expect strict quality control from a $1.50 jug of window wash?

Then it would just be water injection! (pioneered in ww2,among other things)and still accomplish much the same thing.

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jforce Then it would just be water injection!

??? thats what you say cause I don't trust washer fluid ???

How would it only be water???

If I take my happy ass down to the industrial chemical depot and buy my ass some methanol, mix it with some water, and use it in my system instead of your pretty blue water; how would it "just be water injection!"?

[jforce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger ??? thats what you say cause I don't trust washer fluid ??? How would it only be water??? If I take my happy ass down to the industrial chemical depot and buy my ass some methanol, mix it with some water, and use it in my system instead of your pretty blue water; how would it "just be water injection!"?

I was talking about you friend's problem with it freezing. If it was not 50-50 water meth,and it froze,it must be water right? Will still work to control detonation,and less detonation means more power and uncracked pistons and less blow by

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jforce I was talking about you friend's problem with it freezing. If it was not 50-50 water meth,and it froze,it must be water right? Will still work to control detonation,and less detonation means more power and uncracked pistons and less blow by

Not really the point if you are relying on that meth for additional fuel.
how can you tune you watermeth if every jug is different.
thats like trying to tune your engine and never knowing whats coming out of the gas pump. "Is it 110 octane? Is it 60?"

That's why I say "don't trust it"

[jforce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger Not really the point if you are relying on that meth for additional fuel. how can you tune you watermeth if every jug is different. thats like trying to tune your engine and never knowing whats coming out of the gas pump. "Is it 110 octane? Is it 60?" That's why I say "don't trust it"

We have run washer fluid in our diesels for injection,lots of guys have done it for years.And we are talking about some expensive rigs.Water inj.by itself has been used for years to control detonation.If you really want alky in the mix just run e-85(whoops wrong thread)

[turbo minivan]

let me explain how mine works....
i have a gas tank from a 5hp motor with a nipple off the bottom of the tank and a hose going to the inlet of a mid 80s volvo external fuel pump (easy to find at a J-yard and replace when the alcohol finaly destroys it some day) then a high pressure hose goes from the outlet of the pump to a T, then to 2 16pph 3.0L V6 injectors (you wont need that much alcohol!) 3.0L injectors cause there also cheap and eay to find at a J-yard when they deside to go eventualy too. to regulate the tip pressure i Td a small return hose just after the pump that returns a bit of pressure back to the top of the tank, i use a boost restrictor in the return line to tune the pressure, difforent sizes of restrictors give difforent pressures. (im running 100psi at the injector tips.... WAY more than youll need) both the pump and the injectors are wired together and turn on together, the pump pumps fast enough that you dont need to turn it on seperatly to "prime" the lines, injectors open and pump turns on together on a pressure switch (set to 10psi for me) i also have an LED on the dash to tell me theres power through the system when its on, and a pressure gauge in my window showing the actual pressure in the lines. theres not much more to it. ??
anyway, heres a pic. my injectors are about 8"-10" from the TB and just press into "bungs" that i cut off an old fuel rail and JB-welded into the IC pipe.


the injectors didnt have power wired to them yet in this pic, but you get the idea. ive run 32psi on a holset HX-35 turbo on pump 92 octane,
and the EGTs never went over 1450*!!! stock 12* timing and stock fuel pressure...no detonation or anything

[turbokid]

wow. Thanks for the set up description! That's what I needed. Are there restrictors in the line at allow more or less pressure?
Will an external pump work?
Will one 3.0 injector work or do I wanna go ahead and get a small nozzle from mccaster carr?
what line pressure would you recommend for my set up?
did you use hp fuel line?
what's that thing that the two hoses come off to go to the two injectors?
Where is your pressure switch mounted?
Do you think that just using a regular switch to turn the pump on and off will work when I decide to use the system?
Thanks for all the reply's to my newb questions

[Screamin4banger]

Hey, I found that site I was talking about.

Its just one of many ways to set up a system - but the important thing is that it lays it all out and helps you understand whats going on and why. Once you get your head wrapped around the basics you can decide what kind of system you want to go with.

DIY Alcohol Injection System

[crazymadbastard]

I think if you can regulate the voltage to the pump, you could set a certain pressure. So maybe have low say 6 volts going to at 15psi and full 12v at 20psi+.

[turbo minivan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbokid wow. Thanks for the set up description! That's what I needed. Are there restrictors in the line at allow more or less pressure? Will an external pump work? Will one 3.0 injector work or do I wanna go ahead and get a small nozzle from mccaster carr? what line pressure would you recommend for my set up? did you use hp fuel line? what's that thing that the two hoses come off to go to the two injectors? Where is your pressure switch mounted? Do you think that just using a regular switch to turn the pump on and off will work when I decide to use the system? Thanks for all the reply's to my newb questions

wow, ok, ill start at the top
-the only restrictor i have in any line is in the return line, im using waste gate actuator restrictor in the return line... difforent colours/sizes of restrictors = difforent pressures to the injectors.
-i suggest using an external pump, there just easyer to mount and such, mines off a junk yard volvo.
-i would use a 3.0L injector just cause theres no way pressure from boost can work its way up the lines as it could with a nozzle (without a check valve) plus you can regulate volume by using difforent injector sizes. 3.0s are 16lb, stock TDs are 33lb, and theres hundreds of other sizes out there at any junk yard if you do your reserch.
-i run 100psi pressure, but that realy high unless your crazy like me
you should use 60-70psi, also remember that if your running 20psi of boost and 60psi of alcohol, thats ACTUALY only40psi at the alcohol injector tips.
-for hose, im using 300psi line from a trucking supplyer, itll handle ANYTHING.
just serch around at supplyers. your every day parts store probly wont have anything that will work with alcohol.
-the blue thing with the 2 injector lines comming out is a simple air compressor splitter block, found at any hardware store. it just splits the pressure line from the pump into 2 for 2 injectors. i have a guage tapped into it too for under hood adjusting.
-my pressure switch is right on my throttle body. (the black thing with wires going to it in the pic on top of the TB) i have it set to turn the pump on and open the injectors at the same time at 10psi boost. when the lines are empty and the system turns on, the pressure climbs nicely with the boost, then once the lines are full (like the second time you hit hard boost) it shoots instantly to its set pressure. i love it!
-do not use a regular switch to turn it all on!! use a pressure switch! its a set it and forget it kind of thing. having to hit a switch every time would suck!! use an adjustable PS. 12-15$ off e-bay.

hope this helps.