Water Injection

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhsken Hmmm... Alky for the GTX... When you coming up to set it up... Hmmm If we renewed our vows...... (3.2" pulley anyone)

Was thinkin the exact same thing

http://home.att.net/~alkycontrol/page4e.htm

What size is the pulley now?

[glhsken]

3.4"

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhsken 3.4"

Theres a local guy here with the same alky kit as me running the 3.00" pulley on pump gas.

[TRRBOJEEP]

Hey Larry, (4sfed4)

I've got a question for you. Since you're running so much alky through your motor, how does that effect your A/F ratio gage? (if you have one) I'm just currios if the added alky makes the gage read any richer or not. I'm planning to inject mine as well after the holidays. (not quite to the extent you are though) I'm going with a single 5lb/hr injector. (single stage setup) I'll be using it more for it's octane increase and cooling properties rather than a hp adder. Some added insurance for my motor the way I see it.

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Sander Hey Larry, (4sfed4) I've got a question for you. Since you're running so much alky through your motor, how does that effect your A/F ratio gage? (if you have one) I'm just currios if the added alky makes the gage read any richer or not. I'm planning to inject mine as well after the holidays. (not quite to the extent you are though) I'm going with a single 5lb/hr injector. (single stage setup) I'll be using it more for it's octane increase and cooling properties rather than a hp adder. Some added insurance for my motor the way I see it.

Joel-

I pondered this same question for some time.

In the end, the dyno wideband (and my stock O2 sensor) read just as it would if I was injecting extra gasoline. The more alky injected, the higher the O2 volts and the lower numerical A/F I saw on the dyno wideband.

I use the alky for the same reasons you plan to...added charge cooling and octane (as well as extra fueling of course). Much like just injecting extra gasoline, injecting alky alone wont add any power it just richens mixture up.

[sy2206]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sfed4 In the end, the dyno wideband (and my stock O2 sensor) read just as it would if I was injecting extra gasoline. The more alky injected, the higher the O2 volts and the lower numerical A/F I saw on the dyno wideband. I use the alky for the same reasons you plan to...added charge cooling and octane (as well as extra fueling of course). Much like just injecting extra gasoline, injecting alky alone wont add any power it just richens mixture up.

Yeah, you should see it go rich just as it would with extra fuel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sfed4 I think one of the keys to its success is the tremendous charge cooling it provides. With what I have learned, if I were to ever do a lower boost setup, or a car with a blower, I wouldnt even waste using an intercooler. I think one could get all the charge cooling theyd need with just alky.

This is what I'm planning on doing with my 86 GLHT. I'm converting it to TII right now and plan on running NO intercooler(just the methonal) for cooling and adding octane/fueling. Just gonna make a "U" shaped hose like what comes on a late TI car, except mine will be mandrell bent metal. I was going to put my nozzles right in the middle of the "U" bend.

Larry, have you had any distribution problems? Where are your nozzles? As I said, I was planning on running mine in the pipe before the TB, but I'm worried that it may not distribute evenly to all 4 cylinders. The other option would be to drill and tap the intake and run 4 nozzles, like a direct port alky system. Where do you have yours? Any picts?

Mark Christofferson

[TRRBOJEEP]

Thanks for the info Larry, I can't wait to get mine set up. Before long, I'll be an alky-holic too.

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sy2206 Yeah, you should see it go rich just as it would with extra fuel.

Thats for sure what happens. But.......I am not 100% sure exactly what is going on when an alky car is run on a wideband set for gasoline. The methanol I inject is 50% oxygen, while gasoline is 0% (unless you get that Cali winter formulated crap!) So, there must be some effect on the actual A/F, but I havent worried about it! If the EGTs, O2s, and dyno wideband numbers look good, good enough for me.

Quote:

This is what I'm planning on doing with my 86 GLHT. I'm converting it to TII right now and plan on running NO intercooler(just the methonal) for cooling and adding octane/fueling. Just gonna make a "U" shaped hose like what comes on a late TI car, except mine will be mandrell bent metal. I was going to put my nozzles right in the middle of the "U" bend. Larry, have you had any distribution problems? Where are your nozzles? As I said, I was planning on running mine in the pipe before the TB, but I'm worried that it may not distribute evenly to all 4 cylinders. The other option would be to drill and tap the intake and run 4 nozzles, like a direct port alky system. Where do you have yours? Any picts? Mark Christofferson

I dont seem to be having any distribution problems at all. Of course, I dont have a lexan window cut into the intake ports either

What I think happens with alky is that the stuff evaporates so fast in the fairly warm intake airstream that puddling doesnt seem to happen. I imagine there would come a point where too much alky could be injected and the air would reach its saturating point. But, on a "hot air" car like you are talking about with no IC, that saturated point is probably going to be very high. (The hotter the air, the more alky, water, etc it can hold before reaching saturation.)

I have my nozzles installed in a short section of pipe before the TB. There is a rubber 90 after this injection point before the air enters the TB. It all seems to work fine. I dont have any up close pics to share.

I think a direct port setup with four nozzles might be overkill and alot more work than you need to do.

[Aries_Turbo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhsken Hmmm... Alky for the GTX... When you coming up to set it up... Hmmm If we renewed our vows...... (3.2" pulley anyone)

I was chatting with a GTP friend of mine from up here (mark brooks... he says he knows who you are Ken) few months ago when Larry bought his Alkycontrol setup and he wasnt too keen on the 3800sc plate setup as it was supposed to be difficult to get it to seal all the coolant passages and stuff. He also heard some horror stories of the coating on the rotors getting messed up from liquid passing over them. Nothing I have firsthand experience with but just some things to check into before you proceed.

Brian

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo I was chatting with a GTP friend of mine from up here (mark brooks... he says he knows who you are Ken) few months ago when Larry bought his Alkycontrol setup and he wasnt too keen on the 3800sc plate setup as it was supposed to be difficult to get it to seal all the coolant passages and stuff. He also heard some horror stories of the coating on the rotors getting messed up from liquid passing over them. Nothing I have firsthand experience with but just some things to check into before you proceed. Brian

There was a thread on turbobuicks about that. It turns out....as soon as you run any amount of boost through the blower (i.e. smaller pulley), the teflon coating on the rotors starts to delaminate. According to a guy who rebuilds them, hes never seen one come in that wasnt at least partially delaminated. So...who knows how big a deal it is.

As I understand it, the alkycontrol.com 3800 kit uses a small phenolic plate for the nozzle---

[Aries_Turbo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4sfed4 There was a thread on turbobuicks about that. It turns out....as soon as you run any amount of boost through the blower (i.e. smaller pulley), the teflon coating on the rotors starts to delaminate. According to a guy who rebuilds them, hes never seen one come in that wasnt at least partially delaminated. So...who knows how big a deal it is. As I understand it, the alkycontrol.com 3800 kit uses a small phenolic plate for the nozzle---

yeah that was the plate in question. im sure if you are careful and have a proper gasket then its not a big deal. gotcha on the rotor delamination. hopefully its not very detrimental to the motor... heck I dont even know how thick the coating is.

Brian

[3Bar_Mopar]

Larry, what are you using for a pump? Would one of those $15, small, in-line fuel pumps from Advance Autoparts work well enough? Also...what's the ratio of alky and water, or do you use water at all? I remember reading on here that someone said not to use straight alcohol.

This idea is looking more and more attractive to use on my van when I get my new turbo...

[4sfed4]

I use the kit from here---

www.alkycontrol.com

I dont think a puny little pump is going to flow all that much alky. But, of course, it depends on how much you want to flow. The pump used in the above kit is a Shurflow and it is huge. Ive been running mine at 170 psi injection pressure under full boost.

I also use pure methanol....no watering down here! With the Shurflow pump, alky is not a problem and you can run 100%. With a generic fuel pump not designed for alky (or water for that matter), you will destroy it in short order. You want to make sure your pump used for alky is reliable for the purpose as the last thing you want is for it to fail under full boost.

[KClarryb]

Well Larry alkycontrol just sold another kit thanks to your reviews. I ordered mine last week. They are great people to deal with.
I'm trying to get away from having to buy race gas when I turn the boost up.

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KClarryb Well Larry alkycontrol just sold another kit thanks to your reviews. I ordered mine last week. They are great people to deal with. I'm trying to get away from having to buy race gas when I turn the boost up.

Awesome! I promise you that you will be impressed.

And.....you are dead on about his customer service. I have never had better. He will help you every step of the way. Hes gone way overboard for me on my car and thats the reason I have 505 whp on pump gas