Garage Storage Organization and Garage Cabinets

tonyz2897 · **question for 4sfed4. Ignition timing vs. Alky.**

Larry,
Just curious how much initial timing you have dialed in at the boost level you're running? I just got my alky injection setup working and I'm trying to tune for it. I'm assuming that with the detonation control the alky provides I should be able to run a bit more advance but I don't really want to try it without getting an opinion. I'm running 22 psi now with the initial timing at 12 deg. on 93 octane pump gas. I have the alky system set to come on at 14 psi and jetted to provide enough fuel for 9 lights on the a/f guage well past 22. Also, I'm using Edge racing alcohol if that matters.
Thanks in advance,
Tony

Frank · 03-30-2005, 04:59 AM

I do know that Larry was running a TIII, so in turn, he was stuck with the timing given to him from the computer. I can't remember which cal and which MAP sensor he was running, however it was an uncommon setup to make the timing behave somewhat. One cal only went to 2bar and was too agressive on the timing, and another cal went to 3bar, but was weak. I believed he used the later, but you will have to ask him.

Frank

tonyz2897 · 03-30-2005, 05:13 AM

Thanks Frank.

I guess I overlooked the fact that he was running a TIII. Even if I knew how much advance he was running, I'd imagine that a 16v vs. an 8v would react differently. Looks like I'm on my own on this one. Oh well. I'll bump it up to 14 deg and see how it acts. Cast pistons are cheap right?

Tony

Frank · 03-30-2005, 05:31 AM

Are you running a cal and/or have the ability to log? What you could do, is run it at 8 degrees, then 12 degrees, and then 14 degrees, each time logging things like a/f, timing, and knock voltage before the next run with a different settings. By running it at 8 degrees and really 12 degrees, you establish a baseline of what it should look at. If you have datalogged in the past, then you probably also know what it looks like when you knock.

Frank

tonyz2897 · 03-30-2005, 06:13 AM

I wish I had the ability to datalog. My setup is pretty low budget at this point (stock cal, a/f guage and no egt). I'm monitering my A/F guage, tuning the alky for 9+ lights, checking the plugs often for signs of detonation/excessive combustion temps, and judging changes with the butt dyno. I know I'm probably asking for major engine damage, but I'm trying to be as careful as I possibly can with what I've got. Besides, I'm having so much fun I couldn't make myself quit if I wanted to.

When I get back to work, I intend to by a good scanner that I can log with. Until then it's all seat of the pants. If I kill it, I'll hang a new piston or 2 in it and try again.

Tony

unluckyty · 03-30-2005, 06:45 AM

Tony
What are you using for extra fuel?
I am currnetly running at 20 psi, injecting winter washer fluid, but have +40's and stage 5 cal. Working on the car the other day timing was at 14^ and no problems, but I backed it down to 12^.

I am very comfortable at that boost level , knowing I have enough fuel,with the +40's and cal.

Good luck,
Greg

Mike Radowski · 03-30-2005, 08:23 AM

He was running the 3 bar cal with timing that dropped to about 13* total advance at high boost, along with a ton of fuel. Initially he ran one alky nozzle, and then went to two.

tonyz2897 · 03-30-2005, 01:08 PM

Greg, I'm running the alky as the soul source of extra fuel. The fuel system itself is bone stock with the addition of a set of TII (33pph) injectors but I'm running quite a bit of alky. The nozzle I'm running now is rated at 15 GPH @ 100 psi, and I have a second to add if necessary that's rated at 10 GPH @ 100 psi. Hopefully that should provide enough fuel for approx. 30 psi, but that's just a guess. I'm still bringing up the boost slowly and watching for the 9 light on my a/f guage to dim. So far it's holding rock solid at 22 psi. by this point I've reached the limit of the wastegate can and had to shim it to increase boost.
Tony

tonyz2897 · 03-30-2005, 01:13 PM

Mike,
Thanks for the information. I think I might go up to 14 deg initial for now and see how it acts/what the plugs look like. But I'll probably bring it back down as soon as I start increasing the boost again.
Tony

TRRBOJEEP · **Fyi**

Per an earlier post... Larry is running about 34-35 psi boost on pump gas with the twin nozzle setup (flows 25gph @ 100psi) for the supplemental fueling and the +40's for the gasoline portion of the fueling.

Alcohol is awsome stuff... thats why we drink so much beer!

TRRBOJEEP · 04-01-2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyz2897

I'm having so much fun I couldn't make myself quit if I wanted to.

And yet another "alcoholic"

tonyz2897 · 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRRBOJEEP

And yet another "alcoholic"

I love it man!

So far it seems to be working great. The 6 gal boat tank holds enough for a decent ammount of high boost fun between refills and judging by the condition of the plugs and the a/f guage, the first stage seems to be more than adequate for 20+ psi. The 9 light just starts to dim above 22, so I ordered a solenoid and second pressure switch so I can bring the 10 gph nozzle in at around 20.
We'll see what this little stock Garrett is made of (and the a413).

The best part of the whole deal is that the alky I'm running (edge) is only $1.86/gal at a local gas station.
Well below the price of even 87 oct. pump gas.

Tony

tonyz2897 · 04-06-2005, 11:13 PM

Just a little update. Got the rest of the parts for the 2nd stage of alky today and put it together. Also, added an external spring to the wastegate can. Low boost (vac. line straight from the barb on the compressor housing to the can) is 15 psi. I'm happy about this as it's just below the set point for the first stage pressure switch and the computer seems happy with it (9 lights). With the solenoid and bleed in the line (switchable between high and low) I've brought it up to 25 psi. I'm waiting on it to cool down now so I can read the plugs. A/F ratios look good, so if the plugs check out, I'm going to bump it up a bit more. If it starts to lean out or the plugs look wrong I'll back it off a bit and leave it there (providing it gives me enough notice without lunching a piston).
This is fun!

Tony

TRRBOJEEP · 04-12-2005, 08:31 AM

Hows the a413 holding up? Tires bald yet? lol

tonyz2897 · 04-17-2005, 01:04 PM

It's hanging in there. I just bought a case of fluid and a new filter yesterday. Hopefully later this afternoon I'm going to get into it and do the DIY shiftkit, adjust the bands, flush the old fluid out and install the new fluid/filter.
The tires are suffering a bit. There was a bunch of little chunks of rubber stuck to the front fenders from my trip to the dragstrip and I wasn't even doing burnouts (street tires). It was just spinning that bad on launch. I've got a set of 26/10.50/15 M/T's that should solve that if I can get around to opening up the wheel wells a bit for clearance. They fit but contact the wheel well just above the air dam when trying to turn. I'll probably just trim things up a little with the old sawzall.

Tony