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Transmission, Suspension, Brakes, Tires & Wheels This Dodge forum includes modification, tuning, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of manual and automatic transaxles, shifters, torque converters, flexplates, flywheels, ring gears, axles, and differentials including open, friction, and Q. This forum also includes modification, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of the above parts and how to tune them for better traction and handling. Also includes wheel bearings and hubs, wheel studs and nuts, wheel spacers, and other related items. Sponsored by Discount Tire

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Old 04-16-2007, 08:49 AM   #1
8.8 ford lsd- possible to copy for our use?  
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I was reading car craft and saw this what appears to be spring "compressed S shaped" steel insert. Would work like a phantom grip but seems very easy to produce.
Hmmm.

here is a better pic:

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/...-4204-F288.jpg
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:02 AM   #2
 
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Why? We already have various LSD products that range from $250 to $1200...
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:57 AM   #3
 
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$250 bucks? Where the heck is that at? The cheapest LSD setup i've seen is $1000+
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Old 04-19-2007, 01:14 AM   #4
 
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FWDPerformance.com
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:04 PM   #5
 
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its not quite what you think. That is a posi unit. Ford uses the spring to load the clutch pack in the differential. If you look at the picture again the clutch pack is located above the top gear and below the lower gear in the picture. The tangs are in the cut out above and below those 2 gears. Using that spring without the cluches will do nothing for you.
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:08 PM   #6
 
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The $250 version is the phantom grip thing. Better than nothing I'm sure and would work quite well for drag race purposes. It'll only hold about 70 ft lbs of torque difference between the front wheels and it is metal-on-metal slippage. On the street, the torque biasing diffs will work better. You can get one for less than $500 plus an hours worth the time deburring and re-tapping threads that those chinese sweat shops can't get right the first time.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:42 PM   #7
 
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Been looking into this....

None of these units tested use clutches...
Posi Unit Shoot Out
Though the Alabamaman setup has hardened side gears that come with.

So basically all those units are a fancy spring.

The Ford "S-spring" "preload spring" "wave spring" or whatever you want to call it from their Traction-Lok diffs is a less fancy spring, with a less fancy price. Apparently the one for 7.5 inch Ranger L/S diffs is the strongest stock one that is meant to "drop in" to our diffs. The 8.8" ones apparently need some grinding to fit, but come stronger for F-Series HD applications. Ford Racing may have a choice of spring tensions for these.

Anyhoo. 7.5 Ranger traction-lok s-spring is meant to be under $20 and available at your phriendly phord dealer.

Coles notes application to our diffs: Pull diff, pull diff pin, hammer in s-spring, replace diff pin, replace diff. Side gears may need a ridge grinding off the top of them YMMV.

So this be what I'm about to inflict on my A670.

regards,

RW222

Edit: just found out it's also called a "differential clutch spring" per the FSMs for 'stang, tbird, crown vic....
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Old 07-07-2007, 12:10 PM   #8
 
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update your finding on this if you do not mind. Saw some td with 5speeds at the yard, and may apply this to them. May also be a useful touch of info for my neon.

not sure if TD's have the same issues as bad as neona do, for blowing diff pins through the trans case. The dealer sells differential tabs for about $5 a pair, designed to hold the diff pin in place. Should fit on the A523/A568 style diffs.
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:15 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior222
So basically all those units are a fancy spring.

The Ford "S-spring" "preload spring" "wave spring" or whatever you want to call it from their Traction-Lok diffs is a less fancy spring, with a less fancy price. Apparently the one for 7.5 inch Ranger L/S diffs is the strongest stock one that is meant to "drop in" to our diffs. The 8.8" ones apparently need some grinding to fit, but come stronger for F-Series HD applications. Ford Racing may have a choice of spring tensions for these.

Anyhoo. 7.5 Ranger traction-lok s-spring is meant to be under $20 and available at your phriendly phord dealer.

Coles notes application to our diffs: Pull diff, pull diff pin, hammer in s-spring, replace diff pin, replace diff. Side gears may need a ridge grinding off the top of them YMMV.

So this be what I'm about to inflict on my A670.
But as was already noted above, the spring is only part of the limited slip "system", so to speak. I can separate the case halves on an old GM cone-type posi for you. I also can try to find my clutch pack GM posi and split that housing. They all use springs in between the gears but the real posi effect comes from either the cones or the clutch material that sits on the outside of the gears and the housing. Those little springs aren't going to do diddly towards controlling one-wheel diff action. The Ford spring by itself is not what makes any of those diffs a limited slip.

Do your own version of the phantom slip tests with those little springs in there and see what you come up with.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:19 PM   #10
 
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They're not exactly little, there's about as much metal in each corner of the spring part in those as there is in cross section through all four of the coils in those spring and block type. Had one in my hand this morning, could barely budge it by squeezing it, and I'm one of those jerks that sees someone working one of those "grip trainer" things and asks to have a go and then clacks the handles together so hard and fast it's like castinets. (I always get such a laugh doing that should take a digicam round with me for the popping eyes, it's odd, never really had to work at getting a strong grip)

I'll try and rig something up for a slip test. I'm not using this spring because it comes out of a traction loc, I'm using it because it's a strong spring that fits in our diff, wouldn't have cared if it was a bump stop for a hydraulic cylinder on a Cat digger or something.
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Old 07-07-2007, 08:13 PM   #11
 
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Not quite sure whether I'll be able to do straight apples-apples comparison. Don't have a spare junked driveshaft to rig anything with, would have to do it with a socket on the axle nut of a good axle and have the joints flopping around possibly screwing things up. Now I could do it after it's fitted back in the van, but I'm not gonna fit it dry, then take it out again, it's going in with assembly lube on it and whatever stray drips of tranny fluid it might collect while I'm bolting the covers and bearing cups back on. So if it flops around too much to get a reliable torque reading, then it's waiting until it's back in the van, and it's probably going to be after it's run tranny fluid over it, which might be a week or so after it's fitted, due to other stuff I'm doing before it runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack's Dodge
not sure if TD's have the same issues as bad as neona do, for blowing diff pins through the trans case. The dealer sells differential tabs for about $5 a pair, designed to hold the diff pin in place. Should fit on the A523/A568 style diffs.
Yes, forgot to mention I'll be rigging something similar.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:48 AM   #12
 
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I've already been using that wave spring for the past 4 or 5 years. It's works as good or better than a PG insert and for less than $20.00. I have some clutches in the works to make a true posi out of it. The 7.5" Ford diff wave spring fits nicely with only some side gear work (ridges flattened).
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:27 PM   #13
 
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^^^ This be the dude I got my inspiration off. Sub 2 second 60ft on street radials says to me he knows what he's talking about.

Part # is E4DZ 4214 A ... for the 7.5 spring I got, slow getting into my diff, rain, now heat, 43C humidex yesterday=me no lay on black ashphalt in sun.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:38 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Putman
I've already been using that wave spring for the past 4 or 5 years. It's works as good or better than a PG insert and for less than $20.00. I have some clutches in the works to make a true posi out of it. The 7.5" Ford diff wave spring fits nicely with only some side gear work (ridges flattened).
Hi Brian,

Only the spider gears need to be ground- like a flywheel would? just the side with that the spring touches or the both sides of the gear?
Thanks for the part # roadwarrior.
As for the asphalt- just use some cardboard, sweating is a good way to cleanse the body, btw.:)

This will be a "next time" deal for me. I like the quaife idea but my budget is finished for this year. :(
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:17 AM   #15
 
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How much different is the neon diff from a TD diff? It seems some "adjustments" are required to use an neon obx in a TD, but can this wave spring, replce the diff pin be used in a neon mtx?

Any pics of the work involved to properly fir the wave spring in a TD diff? Already have a spare trans apart which would make this a decent project, if it can be done?
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