flywheel harware issues(may be sticky worthy)

[Reaper1]

With a stock-type or Kevlar clutch, with 250whp or less, I beleive it is a good upgrade and would offer the user a LOT of bennefits with little or no issue. I don't plan on staying in this power range and my clutch is WAY more agressive than stock beign a6-puck cermic. The only place I could see it being a problem is drag racing where it *might* not be able to sink away the heat from slipping the clutch fast and could cause slipping issues. This is exactly the issue I actually have with it drag racing, even with the ceramic disc(which the slipping ruined the clutch, hence replacing it a THIRD time).

For road course and auto-x the aluminum flywheel allows the engine to have much better transeint response(getting from one rpm range to another in a certain amount of time). It also allows for just about effortless rev matching for heel-toe shifts. This is becuase of its low mass and low inertia. These same traits make it hard to drive around town becuase it doesn't store the energy needed to be forgiving starting the car moving from lower rpm, making it easy to stall(I do this quite a bit...it makes me look like a total retard and I hate it). In order to get past this, you have to rev the engine a bit and try to engage the clutch in such a way that when it fully engages the rpms will not drop much past idle. It's not as easy as it sounds and can be hard on the clutch and your leg in traffic if the PP is pretty stiff.

I will conclude this post by saying that in a lighter car these issues may not be as extreme, but my car is a full street trim car, and fairly heavy. Probably on the order of 3100#'s or so.

[janus]

thanks for the detailed report on the drivability with this flywheel! that cleared up any further questions. someone should really make this thread sticky if you ask me.
i'm in the same range concerning weight, but i'd choose a less aggressive clutch+pp so that might help me out, plus i might stay in the 200-250whp range until i really go and mod it all out. gotta think about it and see if a resurfaced flywheel wouldn't do the job well enough. thanks again ;)

[Reaper1]

NP...good luck with the build and happy boosting!

BTW, I thought this was a sticky? I know it was for a while anyways...oh well...

[Shadow24V]

just a thought, why didn't you take the flywheel to a machine shop and have them machine down the center section a few thousanths to match the steel flywheel specs? then you could have kept ARP hardware :) just a thought as im pretty sure it could be done...

[GentleCowboy]

There is always the possibility that the flywheel might bend or sheer under fatigue and load
if it is machined down to steel flywheel thickness. The picture of the gouged flywheel spring shows a wear of about .030"-.050". it would have been better to face the bolts instead.

[Reaper1]

^^kinda what he said. In oder to keep the strength afforded by steel vis aluminum you HAVE to have a larger cross section to distribute the load over. Otherwise you will reach the plastic deformation range via internal stresses and that will result in eventual failier, especially with aluminum, and DOUBLY so with machining marks(those are stress risers).

Machining the bolts really isn't too much of an option. IIRC there simply isn't enough material there to do that well. I still have the bolts someplace...I just don't know where right now! LOL

[GentleCowboy]

There is also the option of installing buttonhead G8 bolts. They have rounded head and lower profile and have one side ground flat for the locktab

[Reaper1]

What kind of tool do they require? Hex, Torx, reverse Torx, Star? I personally don't like those types of bolts for high torque applications becuase more often than not, when you go to remove them it is d@mn near impossible and you end up stripping the head or breaking the tool. I know most of those are designed to have more surface area and whatnot than a standard hex to prevent that from happening, but in application it just doesn't seem to work that way.

[GentleCowboy]

I prefer socket hex or torx. if you use a good quality tool correctly and are able to strip a Grade 8 head then it is not what it says it is. I install them with 3/8 drive impact and then torque them. Never had a striped one. Remember you don't take the flywheel off and on every day, and when I do I always use new set of bolts and hardware. It is not worth the aggravation. If you use the same ones and you over-torque them once then they might snap before you know it. once I broke on pressure plate bolt cause i could not reach the new ones and was to tired to move, I picked the used one and swore under the car never do it again.

[Brandon882]

wow this thread is alive again, lol. i just thought id let you know that back when i was adding the fluid, i did so and any grinding in 1st to 2nd gears is gone! so smooth and quiet. oh and when you mentioned to jack up the drivers side then fill, how high do i jack it? and is it supposed to be level to the plug when its jacked or sitting level?

[Reaper1]

Just jack up ONLY the front driver's side of the car like you are changing the tire or something(use a jackstand please!), then proceed to fill. What this does is lets you overfill the tranny a little bit. This is OK, and WANTED. These trannies have a tendancy to starve the 5th gear bearing and such if there isn't enough oil in them sometimes. The little bit that you overfill helps to safeguard against this issue. It also give you a little play room if there is a leak.

[ngant17]

I'm also learning about turbo flywheels, or more specifically, clutch disks as they are

Possibly there is different machining that is done on the face of the stock turbo flywheels that is not done on stock Caravan flywheels, so I need to make sure I get the right clutch disk for this application.

[Reaper1]

Nope...they are all the same. The Turbo clutches and PP are a larger diameter than the N/A ones, but the flywheels are all the same(except the obvious 6/8 bolt early vs. later cranks).

[ngant17]

I tried to mate a stock N/A Dodge Caravan clutch disk to a turbo flywheel. I get metal-to-metal contact from the clutch disk springs. Something just isn't right here, that's not gonna work. No way I'm gonna believe it yet.

OTOH stock Caravan clutch plate seems to line up okay so I'm sure this part will work.

Below are links to photos of my stock Caravan clutch disk:

http://tinyurl.com/ydxwv2h
First photo shows the back of the stock Caravan clutch disk. The disk springs appear to be contacting the metal surface of the 8-bolt turbo flywheel.

http://tinyurl.com/yadmdv6
Second photo shows a side view of same Caravan clutch disk. Front of clutch disk is on the left of photo, back of disk is on right. Springs are visible on both sides.

There appears to be interference with the metal springs against the flywheel.

Do any of these 2 photos resemble the stock turbo clutch disks?

[ngant17]

Oops, I better answer my own thread before I embarrass myself. I just realized what I am doing wrong with turbo flywheel and disk. I had the turbo flywheel oriented backwards, I had the 3 pins (for centering clutch plate) on wrong side, so I also had the clutch disk on the wrong side of the flywheel.

Caravan doesn't have these 3 centering pins, at least I don't remember seeing them and I already have been thru 2 clutch disks in the last 5 years on this van.

I stand corrected. Looks like everything is bolt up correctly now.

I need to find a source for 8 flywheel-to-crankshaft bolts and 6 PP-to-flywheel bolts.