flywheel harware issues(may be sticky worthy)

[Reaper1]

The following information will be usefull to ANYBODY installing an aluminum flywheel and considering the ARP hardware to go with it:

My week started out with a simple tranny, flywheel, clutch swap and ended in frustration, aggravation, a LOT of wasted time, and some wasted money all due to some simple hardware incompatibilities.

The issue is that I've found that one can NOT use ARP bolts with a Fidanza aluminum flywheel.

The flange for the area that bolts to the crank is thicker and makes it so the ARP heads stick out too much and hit the clutch disk hub damper springs as so:







This situation causes it so the car acts like it always has the clutch somewhat engaged so it is VERY difficult to change gears. You will also hear a slight grinding noise as the clutch does engage(gee...dunno what THAT could be!). The clutch may also slip under high load. It acts a LOT like a faulty pressure plate.

The other issue I had was that the ARP pressure plate bolts were too long. They bottomed out before sungging up against the pressure plate. I used grade-5 washers under them and that seemed to work for the install of the above clutch.(I forgot to take pictures of this) However, when I had to pull all of this back apart, I decided to install a 6-puck ceramic clutch and a new dual diaphragm TIII pressure plate. When I did this I reverted back to stock MOPAR factory hardware with no such issues.

So, the lesson here is with an aluminum flywheel to use the stock bolts for both the crank and the pressure plate. It kind of bothers me this info is not more readily available. If I would have known this stuff before I would not have wasted money on the ARP stuff and I also would not have been forced to waste 3 days of my time trying to remedy the problem it caused. This is not to mention the money I spent on a new clutch and pressure plate that I evidently did not really need(though I installed it becuase I had it).

I think with a stock flywheel the ARP stuff would work fine, but I don't know that for fact.

[scott_s]

Very good info. Sorry for your pain. But thank you for sharing. I am about to do this...

[moparfwdsleeper]

Good writeup! I have been considering engine setup's for my CSX, this was one of them...

[VanGo]

Since you didnt end up using the ARPs, would you sell them and if so, what did they cost new and what would you like for them?

Thanks,
Seth

[Reaper1]

I'm willing to sell them. Keep in mind they have been installed once and the flywheel bolts have the minor damage to them. I don't think they are detrimental to how they work. I was able to get them off with no real issues. I had to tap the socket on, but after they were loostened I was able to easily take them out of the socket by hand.

I paid $38 for the flywheel bolts and $21 for the PP bolts(got them from FWD).

I'd be willing to let both sets go for $30. That's half off. Dunno what shipping would be, but it wouldn't be much...figure $5-7 to be on the safe side. I will include the washers I used with the PP bolts if you get them. These were separate from the bolts..I can't remember how much they were, but not very. I got those from NAPA.

If you're interested e-mail me at: 1reaper@bellsouth.net, inlcude "turbo dodge" in the subject please, or I may overlook it.

[kermit]

What clutch did you have before and what are you doing with it??

[Reaper1]

Well, as you can see by the picutres it looked to be something like an 8-puck ceramic deal. I really don't know EXACTLY what it is, but the best we could come up with is that it is a lot like TU's "ultimate street-n-strip" clutch. I don't think it is exactly that clutch though as it has many differences. Ther person that had it before me probably had it made somewhere.

As for what I'm doing with it...right now nothing. It's sitting in a bag in my shed. I don't have any other cars I can use it on, so it'll probably be there for a while unless somebody wants it.

If that is the case here's what I'm going to say: I am willing to sell the disc. The friction surfaces look good and I think it would hold plenty of power. I can not say for certain whether the damage to the hub springs will be detrimental to the performance over time or if it may cause a failier at some point. My guess is that as long as it isn't beat on too bad then you probably won't have an issue. It was fairly easy to drive(considering the car acted like it was never fully released) and I think it would be great for a slightly modded car making under 325ft-lb of torque at the wheels. With a DD PP it may be able to hold more.

Did that help?

[kermit]

Oh...I'm going to need a little more holding power than that...

How did you like that flywheel for the little time that you had it in, lol.

[tryingbe]

Can't you just change the springs and re-use the clutch plate?

[roguetrip]

That sucks, I was about to order some ARP bolts for my Fidanza lightweight flywheel, I wonder if you would cut the bolts down so you didn't have to get washers if they would still interfer with the clutch disc?

As for the bolts, did you use the orginal bolts or did you buy new stock ones? If you bought new stock ones do you have a part number and cost? Thanks!

GL with the new setup!

[Reaper1]

Oh, I still have the flywheel! I reverted back to factory bolts and it works perfectly!

I LOVE the aluminum flywheel! The thing revs so fast, I had NO clue! I've heard people talk about it, but my imagination could not even come close to what it really does for the car! I can get in to boost faster. I can modulate the revs easier(don't have to move the pedal as far to get a slight change). Rev matching to downshift is a breeze! I haven't had the chance to really launch it yet with the new 6-puck. I think that may be a challenge as it is either engaged or not. There's VERY little slip with that thing, especially with the DD PP(see a new thrread here shortly aboutt hat thing). With the above clutch it actually didn't launch too bad. I only tried it twice: bogged it the first time becuase I tried to do it like I did with the stock clutch, the second time I raised the rpm and eased out on the clutch(grabbed like an SOB) and it proceeded to spin the tired all the way through 1st and some of 2nd WITH the OBX. Definatly not as bad as some say for the street. Now see my other thread(coming in a few minutes) about the DD PP.

[kermit]

I don't know if the springs even need to be replaced. To me the damage looks fairly minimal...

[kermit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roguetrip That sucks, I was about to order some ARP bolts for my Fidanza lightweight flywheel, I wonder if you would cut the bolts down so you didn't have to get washers if they would still interfer with the clutch disc? As for the bolts, did you use the orginal bolts or did you buy new stock ones? If you bought new stock ones do you have a part number and cost? Thanks! GL with the new setup!

Why wouldn't you just reuse the old ones?

[Reaper1]

WOW, people are responding faster than I can keep up! LOL

I suppose a clutch shop could probably rehub the thing and it would be mint again.

Rougetrip: It was the pressureplate bolts that were too long(the threads were). Here's my theory on your idea for that: yes, you "could" probably cut them and then smooth out the thrreads on the end and all would be OK. However, ARP made them a certain way and they are heat treated. I don't reccomend this. It could be done in a pinch and would probably be fine(hell, they're only torqued to something like 20ft-lb).

For the flywheel-to-crank bolts, the heads were too thick. This more than likely would not be an issue with a stock or steel flywheel because the flange there is probably thinner, so the bolts are probably nowhere near the clutch at all. However, with aluminum the flange HAS to be thicker to make up for the material's lesser resistance to shear. For the ARP bolts to work on the Aluminum flywheel it *may* be possible to grind down, cut off, or somehow otherwise lessen the thickness of the bolts. It really doesn't have to be much, .030" would probably be adequate. My only issues with this are that #1 these are 12-point bolts. Just the little bit of rubbing that those springs did caused it so there was a bur that made it slightly difficult to get a socket on to them. If you do this and your socket can't make good contact with the bolt head you have more of a chance of not getting the propper torque on them and/or stripping the head and making it VERY difficult to remove it. The bolts I took of were only damaged slightly and I beleive they are fine, but there's no way I could pass them off as "new". the #2 issue is purly cosmetic, and nobody will ever see it unless they have it all apart. That is that the bolts will no longer have any kind of identification on them. It's not a big deal, but hey, some people would think it is.

I did go back to using my stock bolts. They worked perfectly and I have no issues thus far

[slowbrokedodge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingbe Can't you just change the springs and re-use the clutch plate?

I was there when this was removed from the car and I can say that the spring dammage is very minimal, and I would have no quams putting it in another car and not worring about them at all,