Transmission Fluid update?

[Christ]

So they've decided to make a new standard for 2002 and newer Chrysler Vehicles, which use ATF+5 fluid... my question is this: Is this fluid backwards compatible with my 31TE (A413) Transmission?

I know that I can use ATF+4, and that's what's recommended, but I'd like to know if I can use ATF+5, and if there is/will be any benefit to using it?

[NAJ]

Well......
I work at a Jeep dealership and have heard nothing about "ATF+5".
There is nothing on Dealer Connect about "ATF+5" and I inquiried, asked the shop foreman, parts dept, warrant claims adjuster and our trans guy, nobody has heard of "ATF+5" and we are still using ATF+4.
As our warranty claims adjuster said, "Chrysler gets billed for ATF+4 on all claims and they all went thru and Chrysler has said nothing.

[Christ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAJ Well...... I work at a Jeep dealership and have heard nothing about "ATF+5". There is nothing on Dealer Connect about "ATF+5" and I inquiried, asked the shop foreman, parts dept, warrant claims adjuster and our trans guy, nobody has heard of "ATF+5" and we are still using ATF+4. As our warranty claims adjuster said, "Chrysler gets billed for ATF+4 on all claims and they all went thru and Chrysler has said nothing.

I was just going on what I had read somewhere, but if you google it, Valvoline makes ATF+5, apparently... and they either do currently or used to tout it as being somewhat "universal" and "recommended" for Chrysler Vehicles.

Is there a specific Synthetic that I should use for ATF+4? I don't want to use petro based lubricants in the van...

[lookin]

I have been using Amsoil UTF in my A604 for years. It is a fully synthetic PAO ATF. I have had no problems at all with it.

Redline also makes a full syn, PAO with Ester, ATF called C++, that they recommend to replace Chrysler +4. I have used it also, and it too was great stuff.

Royal Purple also make a full syn ATF to replace +4. I have not tried RP ATF, but I am sure it is also good.

[GentleCowboy]

I use ATF +4 in all my autos including lebaron and 95 GCaravan with a bottle of Lucas additive. Never had a problem. The GCaravan has close to 400k on original trany and 3.3 does not burn a drop of oil. I always change tranny fluids no more than 20ks

[Rocher86]

hey guys i cannot find in the users manual the information of the amount of quarters of transmission fluid for a Cx Cirrus 2001, do you guys have any idea of the amount??

also, i'm thinking about changing from mopar ATF +4 to Royal Purple Automatic Transmission fluid... what do you guys think about it?

i appreciate the help =]

[NAJ]

There is no 2001 Cirrus domestic vehicle.
Give me the last 8 digits of your VIN.

[Rocher86]

right, you are totally right, it is totally my fault.

why would i just give away my last 8 digits?
i forgot that in the US, it is called "Sebring" =]
here in Mx, is called Cirrus.

check it out ;)

same vehicule as Sebring... just different name

so, can you help me out?

[midnighttoker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocher86 why would i just give away my last 8 digits?

he works at a Jeep dealership and could look up info on your car with the last 8 digits of your vin

[Rocher86]

yep, so i read up in a post =] also the main reason i am asking him if he can help me out =D

[NAJ]

Actually we are not Jeep anymore, we were on the hit list but......
We did purchase Tech Authority from Chrysler for 1 year which is basically service info, downloading flashes,updating Star Mobile/Star Scan and using Wi-Tech, etc.
I can no longer run VIN inquiries, parts locators etc.
I wanted the last 8 of your vin for the correct service info, when i went in manually there was no Cirrus listed for 2001, the last 8 would only automatically give me the year, model, engine size so I can access service info.

[NAJ]

Since you will not supply the last 8 of your vin.....
Is this Cirrus equivilant to a JR Body Stratus/Sebring which is Chrysler or an ST Body Sebring/Stratus which is a DSM vehicle?
2 different transmissions.
Also what engine is in the vehicle?

[Rocher86]

an apology dear NAJ, i've been busy with work and such that i have not had time to read this lovely page.

i will provide you the numbers as soon as i look at it.

but so far for your questions, it is equivalent to a Stratus/Sebring 2001 body, believe it or not, it is a stock 2.4L Turbo, and it is an automatic 4Gear with Autostick.

as soon as i get the chance i will supply the 8 digits.

thanks for the support man, i really appreciate it.

Best Regards man =]

[NAJ]

The vehicle is equivalant to a JR Body and uses a 41TE Transaxle.

DESCRIPTION - AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID
NOTE: Refer to the maintenance schedules for the recommended maintenance (fluid/filter change) intervals for this transaxle.

NOTE: All transaxles have a common transmission and differential sump. Filling the transaxle accommodates the differential as well.

TRANSMISSION FLUID
Mopar® ATF+4 (Automatic Transmission Fluid-Type 9602) is required in the 41TE automatic and T350 manual transaxles. Substitute fluids can induce torque converter clutch shudder.

Mopar® ATF+4 (Automatic Transmission Fluid-Type 9602) when new is red in color. The ATF is dyed red so it can be identified from other fluids used in the vehicle such as engine oil or antifreeze. The red color is not permanent and is not an indicator of fluid condition. As the vehicle is driven, the ATF will begin to look darker in color and may eventually become brown. This is normal. A dark brown/black fluid accompanied with a burnt odor and/or deterioration in shift quality may indicate fluid deterioration or transmission component failure.

FLUID ADDITIVES
DaimlerChrysler strongly recommends against the addition of any fluids to the transmission, other than those automatic transmission fluids listed above. Exceptions to this policy are the use of special dyes to aid in detecting fluid leaks.

Various “special” additives and supplements exist that claim to improve shift feel and/or quality. These additives and others also claim to improve converter clutch operation and inhibit overheating, oxidation, varnish, and sludge. These claims have not been supported to the satisfaction of DaimlerChrysler and these additives must not be used. The use of transmission “sealers” should also be avoided, since they may adversely affect the integrity of transmission seals.

FLUID CAPACITIES
DESCRIPTION SPECIFICATION
Fuel Tank 60.5L (16.0 gal.)
Engine Oil
2.0L Engines* 4.7L (5.0 qts.)
2.4L Engines* 4.7L (5.0 qts.)
2.7L Engines* 4.7L (5.0 qts.)
COOLING SYSTEM**
2.0L Engine 8.0L (8.5 qts.)
2.4L Engine 10.0L (10.5 qts.)
2.7L Engine 9.0L (9.5 qts.)
AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE
Automatic Transaxle - Estimated Service Fill 3.8L (4.0 qts.)
Automatic Transaxle - Overhaul Capacity with Torque Converter Empty 8.7L (9.2 qts.)
*(includes new filter)
**(includes heater and recovery bottle)

TRANSAXLE IDENTIFICATION
DESCRIPTION
The 41TE (41TE Transaxle) is a four-speed transaxle that is a conventional hydraulic/mechanical assembly with an integral differential, and is controlled with adaptive electronic controls and monitors. The hydraulic system of the transaxle consists of the transaxle fluid, fluid passages, hydraulic valves, and various line pressure control components. An input clutch assembly which houses the underdrive, overdrive, and reverse clutches is used. It also utilizes separate holding clutches: 2nd/4th gear and Low/Reverse. The primary mechanical components of the transaxle consist of the following:

Three multiple disc input clutches
Two multiple disc holding clutches
Four hydraulic accumulators
Two planetary gear sets
Hydraulic oil pump
Valve body
Solenoid/Pressure switch assembly
Integral differential assembly
Control of the transaxle is accomplished by fully adaptive electronics. Optimum shift scheduling is accomplished through continuous real-time sensor feedback information provided to the Transmission Control Module (TCM).

The TCM is the heart of the electronic control system and relies on information from various direct and indirect inputs (sensors, switches, etc.) to determine driver demand and vehicle operating conditions. With this information, the TCM can calculate and perform timely and quality shifts through various output or control devices (solenoid pack, transmission control relay, etc.).

The TCM also performs certain self-diagnostic functions and provides comprehensive information (sensor data, DTC's, etc.) which is helpful in proper diagnosis and repair. This information can be viewed with the DRB scan tool.

The 41TE transaxle identification code is a series of digits printed on a bar-code label that is fixed to the transaxle case as shown in (Transaxle Identification Label).

For example, the identification code K 821 1125 1316 can be broken down as follows:

K = Kokomo Transmission Plant
821 = Last three digits of the transaxle part number
1125 = Build date
1316 = Build sequence number
If the tag is not legible or missing, the “PK” number, which is stamped into the transaxle case behind the transfer gear cover, can be referred to for identification. This number differs slightly in that it contains the entire transaxle part number, rather than the last three digits.

[Jack's Dodge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ So they've decided to make a new standard for 2002 and newer Chrysler Vehicles, which use ATF+5 fluid... my question is this: Is this fluid backwards compatible with my 31TE (A413) Transmission? I know that I can use ATF+4, and that's what's recommended, but I'd like to know if I can use ATF+5, and if there is/will be any benefit to using it?

No. You should not be using ATF of any kind on a manual T350 mtx. There have several threads in which an employee of NVT (New Venture Gear) explains the reason Mopar Briefly used atf fluid in the T350 mtx:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakito Can a mod please sticky this already? The switch to atf+4 was made for cost and speed issues only while assembling the cars. Since only 1 in 12 neons has a manual tranny and they are all made on the same line it was deemed an acceptable comprimise for speed and cost. Oils that are good, i.e that have the correct additives and modifiers like ZDP in the correct ppm, anti-corrosives and antioxidizers. They have an SL rating, not SM, and at least 16000 ppm of ZDP. SM oils have almost no ZDP levels because they were found to cause longterm damage to catalytic converters. Original Mopar lube Mobil 1 high mileage 10w30 or 10w40 Redline racing engine oil or low weight syncromesh oil Royal Purple racing engine oil or low weight syncromesh oil Lucas racing engine oil or low weight syncromesh anything else SL rated with the correct ZDP levels will also work. ATF+4 was a cost saving change and not a perfromance enhancement, it actually will degrade much quicker and not be able to withstand the shear and high speed spinoff that the other oils can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach 1 terry The Amsoil Synchromesh full synthetic 5w-30 MTF is recommended by the engineers at NPG. The engineers worked with Amsoil developing this oil. If you look on the bottle the first tranny listed for use is the T-350. It's also recommended for the T-850. You don't have to use the friction modifier in either tranny when you use this oil. I have it in all my tranny's and it works great. I noticed the difference right away switching from the Mopar T-350 oil. They shift considerably smoother. NEVER USE ATF+4 unless you have no other option. That oil sucks for MTX's and was only used to save money!

Page 3-4 of this link have some great info on the subject.
www.neons.org • View topic - atf+4 for mtx?