New Shift Kit for 404, 413 and 670's released

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedanielm get the whole tranny flushed, or just the TC? How bout takin the TC out and letting it sit upside down for a month?? haha. and why cant you just mix it anyway, you can mix synth with regular motor oil? hmm $120 cad? shipped? if so u got a deal!

I can do $130 shipped as theres tax etc.

You can mix reg and synthetic fluid, you just get a 50/50 mix.

Personally, I would do the mods, adjust the bands, add a drain plug to the pan so if you need to go back in, you can save the fluid-do that all the time, put it back together and refill with reg fluid. Make sure it shifts fine then go get it flushed and do the synthetic thing,

[thedanielm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman I can do $130 shipped as theres tax etc. You can mix reg and synthetic fluid, you just get a 50/50 mix. Personally, I would do the mods, adjust the bands, add a drain plug to the pan so if you need to go back in, you can save the fluid-do that all the time, put it back together and refill with reg fluid. Make sure it shifts fine then go get it flushed and do the synthetic thing,

$130 cad? Pm me and ill paypal it to ya.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedanielm $130 cad? Pm me and ill paypal it to ya.

I don't have paypal, PM sent.

[turbovanman]

Well I just took my core transmission apart. You can do the whole kit without taking the tranny out. The governor will be a bit tricky but doable or don't bother if your not having the 2nd gear start issue. The intermediate servo is also tricky. You need to take out the band adjustment screw, this is on top of the case. When you get the valve body off, take out the little square actutator for the band and you swing the arm out of the way. Install shims and put back together.

[guidsm]

Anyone have try the manual body valve kit? I really thinking to order one ASAP!!

[turbovanman]

Ok, installed the kit last night, no other mods, IE per the info available to us, straight swap with another valve body. The only difference is I have no 1-2 accumulator and the line pressure is higher. I also screwed up and put the wrong governor weight in, more later.
So on the road test, the 1-2 shift is ok, not as firm as before.
My 2-3 shift sucked before, it overlapped and didn't feel like it even went into 3rd. Its much better but still not a nice 2-3 snap like the 1-2 shift. Also, my governor selection makes it shift so fast, like instantly, doh! One more thing, the kickdown is more sensitive, I like it, less throttle to downshift than before!
So tonight, took it back apart and put the solid smaller gov weight back in, put the holed one in the other night. I decided to block the bypass and shuttle valves.
1-2 is still not as hard as the original v/body, the 2-3 shift is better, more precise but still not what I want, shifts are now higher as before, thank god and the kickdown is the same.
So there you go guys!

Well, don't take this as salt yet, I have internal issues now due to my transfer gear coming off. I have swapped valve bodies and my shifts are still bad so I am fixing that then will report back!

[tissimo]

so where do we order this kit? with the manual valve body option or whatever?

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tissimo so where do we order this kit? with the manual valve body option or whatever?

Call your local tranny part store. The kit contains the manual version.

[Torqueflite]

I ordered and received the shift kit a couple days ago, and checked out the instructions and parts to see if I could figure out what was going on in their heads. Anyone who has the shift kit already will know what I'm referring to in the steps. Maybe someone can scan in a couple pics of the instructions so others can follow along. Here's what I think I figured out for the regular/heavy duty instructions:

In the first step it asks to grind some material off the throttle valve and replace it with a supplied "green" spring. At first I thought this mod would cause more sensitive part throttle and WOT kickdowns, and faster rise in line pressure, but after measuring the spring rate, it does the opposite until you're almost at WOT. This mod looks like it allows "stock-like" shift scheduling right up to just before WOT (then goes to WOT shift points which is determined by where line pressure is set), where a stock (unmodified) throttle valve maintains "stock" shift scheduling until around 3/4 throttle, then goes to WOT shift points.

In step 5 where it tells you to drill holes bigger, hole A is an orifice to feed the band for 2nd gear. This is where the check ball can be removed (as per our "homemade" shift kit).
Hole B feeds the front clutch for 3rd gear, and doesn't need to be drilled if the bypass valve is blocked (as per homemade shift kit). If the bypass valve doesn't get blocked, then this hole should be drilled.
Hole C is another feed for 3rd gear (and is drilled bigger in the"homemade").
Hole D is a hole for a shuttling check ball (check ball #9 goes here for anyone who has the hydraulic flow charts). I don't know why they want this hole opened up, as the check ball seals it in every single position that you'd have the shifter in, except "Park". So fluid only flows through this hole when in "P" and I see no advantage to having this hole opened up for when in Park.
Hole E is a tiny orifice to feed the low/reverse band. Opening up this hole will cause harsher engagement into "1" (manual 1st gear) and reverse, but will help prevent overlap on the 1-2 shift *if you're shifting it manually from "1" to "2" or "D".* But on the newer valve bodies, this hole is already opened up, and this orifice is placed upstream in the circuit.

Step 6 tells you to shim the small piston in the kickdown servo. This takes away the "cushioning effect" of the servo for the 1-2 shift as Joe D. mentioned.

Step 7 tells you to put steel sealing rings on the 1-2 accumulator. I think this causes the accumulator to stroke slower during the 1-2 shift. So this will help take some of the "softness" (from accumulator action) out of the shift.

The other steps I left out are pretty much self-expanatory.

Chad Kilback (reverse pattern manual valve body with trans-brake coming
soon)
Calgary, Alberta SDAC
88 Daytona Shelby "Zedd"
12.43 @ 111 quickest time
12.6 @ 113.00 fastest time
87 New Yorker "Norker Zedd" 2.5L TII 14.6 @ 93

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqueflite In the first step it asks to grind some material off the throttle valve and replace it with a supplied "green" spring. At first I thought this mod would cause more sensitive part throttle and WOT kickdowns, and faster rise in line pressure, but after measuring the spring rate, it does the opposite until you're almost at WOT. This mod looks like it allows "stock-like" shift scheduling right up to just before WOT (then goes to WOT shift points which is determined by where line pressure is set), where a stock (unmodified) throttle valve maintains "stock" shift scheduling until around 3/4 throttle, then goes to WOT shift points.

I compared the new holes drilled to the homemade and they line up so I knew that would't help my problem.

I was waiting for someone to explain the tv mod as I was confused. My shifts were faster with the tv mod so I think I will put it back to stock, unless you figure different?

The spacer mod on the accumlator works awesome!

I don't have the 1-2 so can't help on that one.

[Torqueflite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman I was waiting for someone to explain the tv mod as I was confused. My shifts were faster with the tv mod so I think I will put it back to stock, unless you figure different?

I think putting this mod back to stock is a better idea. I could have explained my last post better. I said this mod would cause a slower rise in line pressure, but a better thing to say would be slower rise in the line pressure "curve". Because the spring is lighter, the throttle pressure would be *less* at any given position you have your shoe on the gas, compared to a stock unmodded throttle valve. This is why it caused sooner shifts. But we know throttle pressure is directly related to line pressure, so the line pressure would be lower at any given gas pedal position also (compared to stock).
I don't like that because the boost on some of our cars starts coming on pretty good at part throttle. But once floored, the throttle valve bottoms and throttle pressure becomes the same as line pressure whether this mod is in place or not. But the modded valve bottoms later (with your foot pretty much on the floor) because of the material that had to be ground off the valve. A stock valve bottoms at around 3/4 throttle. I hope this is explained a bit better.

Chad Kilback

[guidsm]

Do you think the manual shift only is hard to do whitout ther kit?

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqueflite I think putting this mod back to stock is a better idea. I could have explained my last post better. I said this mod would cause a slower rise in line pressure, but a better thing to say would be slower rise in the line pressure "curve". Because the spring is lighter, the throttle pressure would be *less* at any given position you have your shoe on the gas, compared to a stock unmodded throttle valve. This is why it caused sooner shifts. But we know throttle pressure is directly related to line pressure, so the line pressure would be lower at any given gas pedal position also (compared to stock). I don't like that because the boost on some of our cars starts coming on pretty good at part throttle. But once floored, the throttle valve bottoms and throttle pressure becomes the same as line pressure whether this mod is in place or not. But the modded valve bottoms later (with your foot pretty much on the floor) because of the material that had to be ground off the valve. A stock valve bottoms at around 3/4 throttle. I hope this is explained a bit better. Chad Kilback

Hahahaaa, sort off.

So what your saying is lessens the line pressure at anything less than WOT, which will in effect cause sloppier shifts and damage to clutchs etc?

[Torqueflite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman Hahahaaa, sort off.

Hey, I don't want to get too technical, I'll sound like some geek Maybe it's too late for that.

Quote:

So what your saying is lessens the line pressure at anything less than WOT, which will in effect cause sloppier shifts and damage to clutchs etc?

Ya, this may happen for those who have retarded enough cars that are getting full spool at half throttle. For the more sane cars, they'll notice that giving it "normal" gas, the car will be in high gear a little sooner.

Chad

[Torqueflite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guidsm Do you think the manual shift only is hard to do whitout ther kit?

Not really. I'll explain the full manual part of it in another post when I feel like writing another essay.

Chad