Koni production..from the horse's mouth!!

[Reaper1]

OK, so while I was having a blast at the Rolex 24 in Daytona hanging out with the Grassroots Motorsports guys(Tim is a friggin hoot!!!), I met the on-site factory rep from Koni(Lee Grimes). I talked with him about the whole thing with the K-based platform loosing its support and what to do about it.

Here's the deal: a stamping tool wore out. It costs $75-100K to make a new one. In order to justify that, it would not only require the money, but the gauranty that they would sell a MINIMUM of 100 sets per year for 3 years. They haven't sold more than 50 sets per year in quite a long time. In other words, it ain't happening.

What would have been the saving grace is that European damper manufacturers all work together and if one needs parts the other has, they sell them to the other company. The only problem is, none of the other European companies had any, or had the ability to make them.

If the Japanese manufacturers would take part in this, then it might have been possible to get the needed parts to continue production from, say, KYB. But, they don't...so back to square one.

We are not the only guys in this boat either. Lee wanted to make it VERY clear that it's not that they hate us(TD's) or anything, it's buisness. There are Honda's that have lost their support!

I asked him about using a "convert-a-strut" kit on our cars. His response was that of not wanting to take liability for saying that it *could* work. What he said is that it would take development of a kit specifically for our application so the tubes fit correctly...blah-blah...you get the idea. I also suspect that liability is why Cindy has not stepped up with this option as well.

What I'm trying to say here is that it is VERY possible this could work. It would take some research and somebody trying it to see, but I have a sneaking suspision that it will.

Now...the good news for the rear! He said that the rears are easy to make, and that a minimum order would be all that's needed to get some. The order amount? I beleive around 100 sets.: Well...I can see where it doesn't make good buisness sense to do this. If you are only going to sell 30 FULL sets per year...how many half-matched sets would you sell? Then you have all those just sitting on the shelf. So, the way I see it is that if a group buy might be put together(assuming that this is the case), then getting the rears might not be all that bad. It just might take a while until a list of 100 people payed up front was gathered.

One last thing to mention: I asked about the early Neon dampers being disontinued as well...he knew nothing about that and indicated that they are still being made to his knowledge.

So, as I've suggested before, I think we need to find out how to make the Convert-a-Strut kit work with either a universal or other Brand-X version of a strut insert in our cars. This would not only solve the front Koni problem, but give the option of running double adjustable dampers up front as well! A feature I think would make a WORLD of difference for our cars!

I do want to mention that if you DO decide to try and make a Convert-a-Strut kit work, be smart about it! Those inserts not only undergo compression and tension forces, but also side loading as well as twisting. So, if you have to make something such as a bushing, then take this stuff in to account. Also, please do not use an exhaust clamp(as I saw one SHO site do) to clamp the housing to the insert! Those things don't exert even pressure and are not meant for that kind of application. If it fails to do the job you intended, it could be VERY dangerouse! It can also damage the insert.

Anyways...I hope this sheds a little bit of light on this. In all Lee was very understanding and a SUPER nice guy. He's a car guy just like us. It's unfortunate that sometimes just because you have a passion for something doesn't always mean it's the best thing to support to make money.

[moparfwdsleeper]

so basically for us to get koni struts we need 300 orders? big number, but over time... then again im remembering some TD roots... yep they are gone

[Rock Kustoms]

300 struts AND $75000

[glhs727]

yeah, yeah, yeah,...........I know the story.
First off, the 100 sets doesn't bother me. We spend about 15K-20K everytime we do an L-body coilover order. Yes, it takes forever to recoup our money, but we do this because if we don't we know that no other vendor will step up to the plate to keep those alive.

The real issue in doing the strut insert is that the insert must be a perfect fit. And with some people using a KYB, some mopar, some monroe, etc......each may be a little different. and we want an insert that will work for everyone, or at least the vast majority of TD owners.
We can do the R&D. If someone wants to send me a used KYB, someone else a monroe, someone else an old mopar unit, I will check them all and see what we can come up with for a universal fit. I won't guarantee anything, but I'm sure if their is a way, Koni and FWD should be able to come up with something.
later,
Cindy

[GLHNSLHT2]

Count me in for 2 set's of Fronts!

[92lebaronGTC]

I know if I ever find rear Konis for my lebaron i'll have to buy them.

[tmoney]

im suprised nobody else thought of this insert idea. ive been wanting to get the koni 8611 double adj inserts for a while now. and they come in 4 different sizes. i havent yet cut apart a set of struts yet to check dimensions. and theyre not too too expensive either about 300 ea.

travis

[Rock Kustoms]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhs727 yeah, yeah, yeah,...........I know the story. First off, the 100 sets doesn't bother me. We spend about 15K-20K everytime we do an L-body coilover order. Yes, it takes forever to recoup our money, but we do this because if we don't we know that no other vendor will step up to the plate to keep those alive. The real issue in doing the strut insert is that the insert must be a perfect fit. And with some people using a KYB, some mopar, some monroe, etc......each may be a little different. and we want an insert that will work for everyone, or at least the vast majority of TD owners. We can do the R&D. If someone wants to send me a used KYB, someone else a monroe, someone else an old mopar unit, I will check them all and see what we can come up with for a universal fit. I won't guarantee anything, but I'm sure if their is a way, Koni and FWD should be able to come up with something. later, Cindy

ill send ya a mopar strut, or cut one up and send pics/demensions, i just took them out for my coilovers i made, PM me

[glhs727]

I would prefer the strut itself since we may do/need additional R&D
If you can send one, pack it up, and I will have fedex pick it up so you don't have to pay shipping.
Thanks,
Cindy

[Chief8one]

i was going to order a full set of koni's in dec. go figure they discontinued them a month before i would of had my christmas bonus...really pisses me off since i have nothing to keep me competitive in my GS autocross class. 08 Si civics are going to eat me alive.

[Rock Kustoms]

sure, no problem, right now it has the spring and upper mount on it, do you want me to disassemble it?

[glhs727]

I'll taek it either way.
Thanks
Cindy

[Travis_k]

Koni double adjustable inserts do not mount the same way as the ones that are meant to bolt into stock struts after you cut them open and take the old inside parts out. It would require modifying the sturts to be like the VW ones with a removeale nut on the top. BTW, MK2 vw inserts would work on an L-body as long as they would fit into the housings. The are the right length, and the stock l-body top mounts will fit.

[Reaper1]

You sure about that? I could have sworn I saw somewhere somebody was using a double adjustable insert with that kit...but then again, I could be VERY wrong too! The point being that we "could" get Koni's again is where this was supposed to go...so, lets keep it an eye towards that, then worry about the rest of that later.

[Travis_k]

The struts koni makes for that purpose are bolted in fron the bottom, the double adjustable ones have the second ajustment there so they are bolted in from the top. Im pretty sure that if someone was to try it, MK2 VW inserts would fit if the struts were mdified to have a thread on cap to hold the insert in like the VWs have. I was planning to do that on my charger before I sold it.