Fixing the understeer... L-body.

Through corners, the Omni will understeer like there's no tommaro.

I'd like for the handling to be a bit more neutral if possible.. What would help to achieve this?

I know that if i stiffen up the back end, it will reduce the understeer. What's the best way to go about doing this? A bigger sway-bar in the back seems to be a good solution.

Anyone disagree? Agree? Thoughts? Thanks!
-Aston

[BadAndy]

Agree....bigger swaybar will do wonders

[mwadams]

I used a cool trick I found in Grassroots Motorsport mag. They installed a steel plate onto the rear axle to keep it stiff. From the factory, the axle is an inverted U so you basically box the U up with a steel plate (something like 6" wide x 40" long). Bolt it up with a couple of u-bolts and lock nuts (stainless is prefered). You can also weld it up there. Just fit it between the welded on sway bar and axle and you should be good.
Mark

[BadAndy]

Quote:

Originally posted by mwadams I used a cool trick I found in Grassroots Motorsport mag. They installed a steel plate onto the rear axle to keep it stiff. From the factory, the axle is an inverted U so you basically box the U up with a steel plate (something like 6" wide x 40" long). Bolt it up with a couple of u-bolts and lock nuts (stainless is prefered). You can also weld it up there. Just fit it between the welded on sway bar and axle and you should be good. Mark

This works great as well as it will help in keeping the axle from twisting and bending however it has nothing to do with the axle in relation to the frame/body which is what the sway bar does. Nice tip!

[omnivore]

On an L body there is no provision for reducing body to axle movement directly, even with the factory sway bar, or a Quickor style one. Nothing links the axle to the body except the bushings, bolts, and rear shocks. The idea behind reducing the twisting of the trailing arm style 1 pc axle is the whole point to the sway bar. Boxing the bottom of the U chanel would be a very effective and cheap alternative to buying a real sway bar.

Quote:

it will help in keeping the axle from twisting and bending however it has nothing to do with the axle in relation to the frame/body which is what the sway bar does.

[BadAndy]

Quote:

Originally posted by omnivore On an L body there is no provision for reducing body to axle movement directly, even with the factory sway bar, or a Quickor style one. Nothing links the axle to the body except the bushings, bolts, and rear shocks. The idea behind reducing the twisting of the trailing arm style 1 pc axle is the whole point to the sway bar. Boxing the bottom of the U chanel would be a very effective and cheap alternative to buying a real sway bar.

I didn't know that a true rear swaybar wasn't available....it has been quite a long time sinse I have owned a "L". The "idea behind ruducing the twisting of the trailing arm style 1 pc axle" is not the whole idea behind a sway bar.....it is however better than not having anything at all. The intergral "swaybar" does not act like a traditional swaybar....the two have very distinct characteristics. If a rear swaybar is not available (one that ties the trailing arm to the chassis in some way other than through the existing trailing arm mounts) than the boxing in of the trailing arm is your only option.

I love GRM.. Everything i like about cars in one magazine..

Anyway, i was looking at it and i have an idea, similar to using some steel to box up the rear trailing arms. Instead of using a 6" section, i could use 1x1" sections of aluminum, connecting the sides of the "U". If one isn't enough, then i can always add another, or another, until i have it the way i want it.

Anyway, i have lots of free time, so i may as well try it. Last time i got like this, i made new IC pipes that turned out awesome!
-Aston

[BuRn__]

what about a rear strut bar in conjunction with a rear sway bar?

[BadAndy]

Quote:

Originally posted by BuRn__ what about a rear strut bar in conjunction with a rear sway bar?

This is what I am doing.....all that is left is to buy the swaybar.

A rear strut bar would be really easy to make as well.
-Aston

[Vigo]

theres a reason the rear axles are called 'torsion beams' .. the twisting of the axle when the wheels are at uneven heights provides the antisway action for the rear, and connecting it to the actual body is unnecessary.

besides, it would be nearly impossible to connect a swaybar to the axle and the body without either somehow severely limiting suspension travel or having the arms so long that the bar would have to be extremely big and heavy to work well.

most swaybars for axle setups like ours DONT connect to the body, they connect to the trailing arms.

[Frank]

one website for you for all you suspension stuff....

www.fwdmoparmuscle.com

guys trying to better the 3.0 own this site. they have everything from swaybars both front and back to bushings.

frank

[Frank]

Quote:

Originally posted by fkatzenb one website for you for all you suspension stuff.... www.fwdmoparmuscle.com guys trying to better the 3.0 own this site. they have everything from swaybars both front and back to bushings. frank

in the responce to the rear though, i just did a solid bar instead of the hollow bar in our rear axle. worked quite nicely.

frank

[BadAndy]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vigo theres a reason the rear axles are called 'torsion beams' .. the twisting of the axle when the wheels are at uneven heights provides the antisway action for the rear, and connecting it to the actual body is unnecessary.

I am aware of how the "torsion beam" setup functions. If it were true that it is unnecessary to have a conventional swaybar on the rear of a solid axle car then it would also be true that manufacturers would not waste the extra expense, yet conventional swaybars have been placed on solid axle cars for quite some time......especailly when it came to competition purposes.

Quote:

[i] besides, it would be nearly impossible to connect a swaybar to the axle and the body without either somehow severely limiting suspension travel or having the arms so long that the bar would have to be extremely big and heavy to work well.[/b]

If I remember correctly Lambros Race Engineering were the first to come up with a rear swaybar for our cars as they found it applicable in SCCA, many have followed such as Addco, and Quickor. The design was a little difficult I'm sure but I would not call it nearly impossible to do unless you are referring to guys like us with limited resources. Our cars have very little wheel travel when the wheels are at "uneven heights" by design. All of our needed wheel travel for normal everyday driving is when both wheels are traveling evenly (speedbumps for example) and this would not be interrupted with a rear swaybar as it would just rotate in is bushings......besides what we are trying to reduce is the uneven travel of the wheels (in relation to the body of coarse) this is what is known as "sway" this is why we apply a swaybar to reduce this action

Quote:

[i] most swaybars for axle setups like ours DONT connect to the body, they connect to the trailing arms. [/b]

Agreed, on everyday stock vehicles that are asked to do no more than what they are designed to do.....this is not what I ask of my car or those that consider a rear swaybar.

Great conversation!

[omnivore]

Quote:

If I remember correctly Lambros Race Engineering were the first to come up with a rear swaybar for our cars as they found it applicable in SCCA, many have followed such as Addco, and Quickor.

I haven't seen the LRE swaybar, but Addco's and Quickor's do not attach to the body...they simply bolt up to the bottom of the torsion axle like the stocker is welded. They do use links to attach it to the trailing arms on either end, but otherwise, it is an axle only attachment as far as i have seen.