90+ Lebaron digital dash

[NAJ]

The only Part # that is Valid is 5266002,it is listed as "Module" Year In 1992,Year Out 1993.

[phantomrt]

What do you mean by "year in" and "year out"? If I look up 471-9122, it comes up as "module". Do you have Chrysler's software? I want a copy. Thats the part number for a 1992 8V turbo engine computer. Probably been superceded a couple times.

[NAJ]

I work at a Jeep Dealership and I have Access to "Dealer Connect" at Home only because they want us to do Online Training at Home,I Can Run Parts Inquiry's(need Part #,Cannot look up Parts,different Program)VIN Inquiry's.TSB'S back to 92 and ALL Chrysler Service Info Back to 96.
Year In and Out is the Years that Part was used.
Ran an Inquiry on the controller and it came back as "No Records Found"

[ZoskalonMPI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantomrt Ahh, sorry about forgetting about that part! Part number I believe from the guage cluster:

Is this the part number on the 92+ digital dash? So if mine is the same part number, it should work with my body computer no problem. Basically the only difference between the years is the signal from the body computer, right? So if I hook up all the power cables and splice in the wires and then connect the 2 bus wires, I can safely determine whether its 92+ or -91, correct?

[EvilcowRoland]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantomrt Oh wow. I didn't know the guage clusters from the pre-1990 G/J bodies would fit in an Acclaim.

Actually, that's a 4-door LeBaron digital dash (H body). But still, I didn't realize the H and AA could share dash parts. Hm.

I like the electronic climate control. My old 87 LeBaron had it and the digital dash setup. Did they ever offer digital systems in the 90+ Daytonas?

After reading this and other threads, I think it may not be worth it to try adapting a digital dash in my 90 Daytona. I grabbed one from the yard but don't know what year LeBaron it came out of. Would the part number tell me for sure?

[phantomrt]

Oops, I kinda accidentally abandoned this thread.

I wish I would have compared part numbers with the 1990 cluster I sold not too long ago. From the sounds of it, this should be the cluster you need. I guess we don't know until the data bus is hooked up to it and the wheels start spinning and a reading shows/doesn't show on the dash.

[ZoskalonMPI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantomrt Oops, I kinda accidentally abandoned this thread. I wish I would have compared part numbers with the 1990 cluster I sold not too long ago. From the sounds of it, this should be the cluster you need. I guess we don't know until the data bus is hooked up to it and the wheels start spinning and a reading shows/doesn't show on the dash.

True

I found a sticker on the dash, still has the original sticker. Production date: 1990

The chances that its 92+ are low, too much work to splice it in anyway. Is there a way where I can just take a 90 or 91 body computer and splice it in with my current one? So that my original one remains and does its functions but the -91 sends the bus just to the dash. Because both computers receive the same input from all the sensors, correct?

I just don't know what the exact function of the body computer is, so if someone could just lighten me up a little on its purpose that'd be great. If I put the second computer in there and spliced it in parallel, all the voltages would remain the same, right? If the body computer collects data and communicates with the ECU, it does do through the bus lines, no? The second computer would just send its data to the dash.

Unless I'm just talking crazy, let me know, please. If not this way, how else would I make this dash work?

Thanks for all your help so far.

[phantomrt]

Oh, so that is interesting. Two different parts with the same part number. Sounds like something GM likes to do. Assuming that REALLY is a part number there though! The other guy said that the number was invalid, so it is likely that it is incorrect anyway, and you just have to know what year car it came out of.

The body computer does a whole bunch of things. The chimes are controlled by it, the alarm activation is controlled by it, the automatic door locks, the courtesy lamps, the light around the ignition switch, the DOOR AJAR stuff, etc. You can look at the wiring diagrams and see where all the inputs for it go and get an idea of what it controls.

The body computer may have nothing to do with the digital speedometer reading since it can get speed and RPM info directly from the engine computer. But, I really do not know.

It could certainly be possible to run dual body computers, but only one would be able to be hooked up to the data bus, or else the modules will get confused.

I am going to email a friend of mine who installed 1992+ EVIC stuff into a '91 G-body, so LOTS of stuff was converted. He knows more than God in this department, and almost everything I know about it I learned through him. He struggled for a long time trying to figure out why everything would not work, thinking the 1990+ stuff was all the same. He has some connections to the big 3 auto makers, and I believe thats where he got wind of the data bus change for 1992. He carefully swapped in a '92 T-III engine computer to do a test. Didn't start the 8v car with it obviously, but was able to raise and spin a wheel by hand and suddenly a speed reading showed up on the dash. Stay tuned....

[ZoskalonMPI]

Actually, I haven't checked the part number on mine yet, so I'm sure it'll be different.

My digital traveler which gets all its info from the bus lines knows the distance traveled and mpg, and those are derived from RPM and speed, so I'm assuming that the digital dash gets those readings from the bus.

I'm assuming that the body computer's bus goes to the ECU, correct? If I spliced in a second body computer in parallel, I would just run the two bus lines to just the dash. It shouldn't interfere with anything since they'd be separate. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And if you could ask your friend for me, that would be awesome. Thanks a lot for all your help man.

[Turbo SOB]

Hi, phantomrt asked me to chime in here. I have a fairly extensive knowledge base on the '90 and up Class II communication data bus for our cars. Most knowledge, I'm sad to say, gained from (bang head on wall) experience. Lots and lots of (banging head on wall) experience. Having all pertinent manuals and a friend who worked at Chrysler in the late '80s, early '90s didn't hurt.

Some things I don't know: part numbers. I always just make sure I make careful note of what car it came from and it's various options.

I have installed a '93 Lebaron Digital Cluster into my '91 Daytona Shelby. Unfortunately, due to a red light runner, the car is now written off.

The first thing that some people don't get right away, that they NEED to know is that this is in no way comparable to doing the digital conversion in a pre-'90 car. They still have discrete wiring for all the signals.

The wiring diagrams show a few interesting things, that were useful to know before I even attempted the conversion. As with all cars produced today (at least all the ones I know), the '90+ G/J bodies (and a few others - we'll get to this later) have a class II communication bus between various "smart" modules strewn about the car that allows them to send important information to each other. This way, a single sensor only needs to be directly wired to one module, and that module can communicate the information to all the others over the class II data bus. There are minor year to year changes in how things get wired. From '90 to '92 there are more and more things added to the bus, and less and less wires. For example, the '90s still used a fairly hefty control module (under the steering column) to make the headlamps go up and down. In '91, it's BCM controlled.

In base model G/J, there are only two "smart" modules, the ECM (engine control module) and the BCM (body control module). It's how the BCM knows to lock the doors at 15 MPH. There is no white/orange wire (speed sensor) going to the BCM, as this information is communicated from the ECM. Even with the ones without power locks (the real base models) the BCM needs to know when the vehicle is moving so that it can ding at you when the vehicle moves and your seat belt is not fastened.

When you start to add content you'll add other smart modules like: security alarm, overhead console, traveler, digital cluster, EVIC control head and EVIC engine node module.

Side note: even though 90+ vehicles with overhead consoles have a discrete sensor for outside air temp and have the compass magneto built in, it still needs the class II to know when to dim it's display. The BCM has a wire from the gauge pod that tells it where the position of the dimmer switch is, and it puts this info onto the bus for all other display modules (including, in up-level vehicles, the EVIC control head and the digital cluster). Oddly enough, the radio does not utilize the Class II data to dim, it still operates on the discrete wire (the same one that goes to the BCM).

Knowing how to swap parts from vehicle to vehicle requires that you know where the information from each sensor is sent in each vehicle arrangement. It also requires that you know one simple fact: '91- "smart" modules can not talk to '92+ modules. My "informant" from Chrysler tells me that in '92, as a means to commonize ECMs, (or at least the PCBs they are built on) and to advance technologically, they resourced the supplier, which came with a major restructuring of the Class II data communication bus. The details of the change are not known to me, but it may be as simple as a data rate change (for example, from 50 kbps to 100 kbps). Today's cars running on CAN bus vary as wildly as GM's 33.3 kbps to Ford's 500 kbps. Ford even uses two distinct busses, one high speed (between important modules) and a low speed CAN between HVAC control head, wiper modules, etc with the Cluster being the "translator" between the two busses.

For the '90+ digital cluster, there is no discrete wire for tach, speed sensor, fuel sender, oil pressure sender, etc. The tach signal, vehicle speed (distance), voltage comes from the ECM.

The oil sender, the head temperature sender and the fuel sender are instead wired to the BCM. In doing the conversion, you'll need to ADD wire to get these signals from the back of the old analogue cluster to the BCM connector (assuming, of course that you have the premium BCM).

With the proper BCM wiring and the proper combination of model year parts, you'll at least have basic functionality of the digital cluster. Do not attempt this without the wiring diagrams from the model year of the Cluster/BCM you have, or someone to walk you through every step of the way.

The only wires common to the digital and analog gauge clusters are the lamps (hi/low, fog, etc), turn signals, and brake pressure/e-brake switch. There may be one or two more.

Now, EVIC is even more complicated. I believe this system is available with or without the digital cluster. In both cases, this system adds the EVIC control head (aka the 6-button traveler), the engine node module and the lamp outage module. The control head will have basic mile per gallon and distance info if installed without the proper BCM or node module, but has much more capability. The lamp outage module (a dumb module) sends a discrete output to the BCM for each lamp circuit it monitors. The BCM sends this info to the EVIC control head (again, without the proper BCM this won't work). The Engine node module has discrete sensor wires to: brake fluid level switch; coolant bottle level switch, wiper fluid level switch and oil level switch (only found on the V6). In addition, the outside air temp and compass magneto are inside of it. The largest part of the EVIC control head are the alerts (low oil, fasten seat belt, etc).

I did also install the '92+ automatic climate control from the New Yorker/Imperial. The '91 climate control is virtually identical, but in '92 they added the capability for the control head to operate in a fully manual mode (which is really neat). You can tell because the HVAC control head has a "MODE" button in the middle instead of a "AUTO" button. This system is actuator controlled, unlike the vacuum actuated regular systems. Oddly enough, it seems that the bosses on the plastic HVAC module cases were added sometime in '91. My '91 had the bosses, but some '90 cases I've seen didn't. Perhaps the '90 HVAC cases were the same as the '89 and older. '90 ATC is still vacuum actuated. The electric actuators of the '91 and up allow something strange, "Blend" mode. When you press the floor and defrost button simultaneously, the system will go halfway between the two modes, something previously unavailable in the vacuum actuated systems.

In dealing with the New Yorker/Imperials, I discovered a few interesting tidbits. They use the same EVIC system as the G/J bodies. It appears that the '88 through '91 (because these premium vehicles got class II communication 2 years earlier than the G/J) engine node modules are not compatible with the G/J system at all, but the '92+ engine node module, despite being potted into the same large case as the '91 and earlier, has the same small PCB as the G/J body. I didn't get to verify (before the accident) but I believe the '92+ New Yorker/Imperial node module may work in a '92+ G/J system. Also, these vehicles have a remote entry module (if you can find the key fobs) that work in conjunction with the security module to allow remote door locks. I have a complete Imperial interior harness and I wanted to try to install this system into the Daytona.

A few comments:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoskalonMPI And the other question, what is up with the 7 more wires in the analog dash???

These are the actual sensor wires. There should be a tach (black/red???), speed/distance (white/orange), fuel level (blue/black I think), oil pressure (gray) oil pressure low lamp (gray/yellow), head temp (violet/yellow). In the digital system, some wires go to the BCM, some stay in the ECM, and the info comes via Class II bus (yes, the purple/white twisted pair).

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantomrt Also, I believe the mileage is stored in the SBEC some how.

No. Definitely not. Not even in new cars today. Total miles traveled may be stored in the ECM (it is on vehicles today, it's how dealerships check to make sure you haven't swapped clusters, or swapped to a hi-po module, re: warranty) but it is not what the cluster displays. The cluster has it's own chip for storing mileage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantomrt Somewhere on the data bus is % fuel remaining according to the sending unit in the tank.

The fuel sending unit is wired to the BCM, and the fuel usage info comes from the ECM. I think in 2-button travelers the number of miles remaining is interpolated, from the known size of the gas tank.


Phew, I need to get back to work. I do tend to ramble. One last thing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilcowRoland After reading this and other threads, I think it may not be worth it to try adapting a digital dash in my 90 Daytona.

Aw come on! Don't give up hope! It's fun! No really

Later,
Jeff

[ZoskalonMPI]

wow, well that was very extensive and informative.

I have a few unanswered questions. If I want a 90-91 digital dash to work, I need a 90-91 BCM? Or do I need the premium BCM? I'd think that the premium BCM just sent more info and not different info, so the speed signal, for example, would be the same coming from either bus. I have a 6 button traveler from a 92 LeBaron, I was thinking about taking out my 2 button traveler and wiring in the 6 button one to see if I can get at least the mpg/tach/etc, basically the same info that the 2 button one displayed. If it works, that would mean that the premium BCMs send the same signals and I would be able to get away with using a non-premium BCM for my digital dash, to at least display the major functions.

And the biggest question, I still have no idea how to make my 90 dash work in my 93 Daytona. I do not want to do a complex harness swap/mod and search for rare BCMs etc.

Can't I just split all the input wires going into my BCM and input them to a second pre-92 BCM? Are the purple and white bus lines the only output from the BCM?

Thanks for your help man.

[phantomrt]

Told ya. That guy knows more than God when it comes to this stuff.

If you want a '90-'91 digital dash to work, you will need a '90-'91 premium body computer. There is the regular and premiums for '90-'91, and the same for 1992+. So far, I have been unsuccessful in installing a 6-button traveler into a car and even getting it to light up. One thing I am not sure I even tried is to install my '92 6-button it into my ''92 Lebaron, which does not have any EVIC stuff, but does have the premium body computer. Might try it tonite.

The premium body computers have a LOT more wires going to them. If you look at the grey? connector in your Daytona, there's probably five wires going to it. In a car with a premium computer, that gray connector has at least triple the wires.

Remember, that the 2-button ones do not need the constant power feed (pink wire). If you wired up the 2-button in your Daytona, you probably did not hook up the pink wire, which the 6-button does need. It is power all the time. When fully functional, this thing will light up with the ignition off, and tell you the door is open or something.

You cannot split the input wires to your BCM. You COULD, but for this 1990 digital dash to work, it has to have a 1990-1991 SBEC (engine controller) to talk to. The 1992+ SBEC will not be able to communicate speed information to the '90-'91 BCM or the '90-'91 digital cluster due to the different bus. Essentially the answer is "No."

Your best bet is to find a 1993+ Lebaron with the EVIC system and rape EVERYTHING out of it that is electronic. 1992 would be the next best thing, but remember they have hideaway headlights, and could be a little extra work to shoehorn into a 1992-1993 Daytona. The next thing, which makes parts a little easier to find, is to conver the car to 1991 electronics. FYI the cruise control circuit changed for 1992 also. Very slightly, but enough to cause a person to pull hair out!

As far as outputs from the BCM... there are arguably more. The automatic door locks would be considered an output, the lighted ignition cylinder ring is an output, ummm.... the cluster will work as long as it has a couple friends that it can talk to. Otherwise, its a sort of boat anchor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoskalonMPI wow, well that was very extensive and informative. I have a few unanswered questions. If I want a 90-91 digital dash to work, I need a 90-91 BCM? Or do I need the premium BCM? I'd think that the premium BCM just sent more info and not different info, so the speed signal, for example, would be the same coming from either bus. I have a 6 button traveler from a 92 LeBaron, I was thinking about taking out my 2 button traveler and wiring in the 6 button one to see if I can get at least the mpg/tach/etc, basically the same info that the 2 button one displayed. If it works, that would mean that the premium BCMs send the same signals and I would be able to get away with using a non-premium BCM for my digital dash, to at least display the major functions. And the biggest question, I still have no idea how to make my 90 dash work in my 93 Daytona. I do not want to do a complex harness swap/mod and search for rare BCMs etc. Can't I just split all the input wires going into my BCM and input them to a second pre-92 BCM? Are the purple and white bus lines the only output from the BCM? Thanks for your help man.

[ZoskalonMPI]

anyone want a 1990 digital dash?

[Turbo SOB]

God? Gees, don't go nuts.

It's like this, you ever heard the phrase "curl up with a good book"? Well, I'm like that, but replace the book with the wiring diagrams and the big comfy chair with that stool out in the garage in front of the open hood. Trips to the library are replaced with trips to the wrecker yard, even if to only look at the differences in stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantomrt 1992 would be the next best thing, but remember they have hideaway headlights, and could be a little extra work to shoehorn into a 1992-1993 Daytona.

Putting a hideaway headlamp BCM in a fixed lamp car is easy, it's going the other way that's a PITA. I had to piggyback my old '91 BCM behind the glovebox, just to get the headlamps to go up and down when I put the '93 BCM in.

Later,
Jeff

[Turbo SOB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantomrt GTC's never came with the EVIC system, so I need a lamp outage module from a 1993+ EVIC equipped car blah blah blah blah. In 1992, only the GTCs had those updated tailights.

OH! I almost forgot, the New Yorkers/Imperials have the dual tail lamp deal, just like the GTCs and Daytonas. Also, a lot more of them have the EVIC system, and in turn the lamp outage module.

The case that the lamp outage module is mounted in is different between J-body and New Yorker/Imperial, but the PCBs inside the boxes are identical shape, so you can swap them out. They have the extra pinout for the second pair of tail lamps, but still have the same discrete signal wires to the BCM. Add a second pair of wires to the rear and voilà! Lamp outage module in a GTC/Daytona.