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General Electrical Discussion of fuseable links, wiring repairs, and other gadgets / gizmos not working.

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Old 12-15-2007, 01:57 PM   #1
APEXi stuff  
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So i cam across this thing recent;y and find out some td guys use it and me not being familiar with it other than reading the things it does off the website.... I was wondering if i could get a few questions answered. It seems the apexi is considered an electronic boost controller with the same functions as a wideband o2. Is there really a difference in functionality? Do you need a separate harness to hook-up the apex or how does that work?
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:20 PM   #2
Re: APEXi stuff  
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it would help if people knew what you are talking about. Apexi what, a boost controller is just that and as nothing to do w/ a wideband
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Old 12-22-2007, 12:49 AM   #3
Re: APEXi stuff  
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Particularly i am reffering to the apex afc II. I was having a hard time finding detailed info on it as to what it's purpose was. Sounds like though that it' just for moniroing purposes not really tweaking. I know it has nothing to do with a wideband but the first site i checked made it sound like you could tune the fuel mixture n all from the unit. thats what started confusing me.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:05 AM   #4
Re: APEXi stuff  
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Apexi S-AFC II

S-AFC II - The Super AFC II (Air Flow Converter) is the industry standard for sub computer fuel control. The S-AFC II is designed to fine tune and "squeeze" power out of existing engine setups by allowing the user to modify the fuel curve with precision accuracy.

hope this helps
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:23 AM   #5
Re: APEXi stuff  
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so how is that different from a widband other than the setup process? both serve the same purpose right?
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Old 12-26-2007, 03:09 AM   #6
Re: APEXi stuff  
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well, I'll take a stab here...
Very basic:
The SAFC II is basically a "go-between" that reads your MAP and tells your ECU a lie. What lie it tells is programmed by you. It also wires into your TPS and other stuff to give you the information on which to base the lie on... This "fooling" is the "tuning" it offers.

A wideband O2 is a 5volt (instead of 1volt) sensor that some ECUs can take advantage of, but mostly is a pretty gauge to screw into your dash.

Remember, this is a very basic comparison...

more info here: http://www.apexi-usa.com/pdfInstallation/15.pdf
and here:http://www.apexi-usa.com/pdfWiring/7.pdf

hope this helps some....
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:11 AM   #7
Re: APEXi stuff  
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Apexi SFACs do fool your computer, but in the age where our cars really don't have the USB hook up to a lap top to change values in our calibrations, this is only thing you really can get n there to pull fuel or add fuel by RPM. I know at least a few TD ppl running them and they work quite well on the nefariously rich stage 5 FWD cal and I probably will run one on my new cal for my TIII when i get it in near future to try and eek the most power out of it without going balls rich throughout the RPMS. Import ppl live by these considering that their cars arent ment for turbos
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:25 AM   #8
Re: APEXi stuff  
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Ok so one other question, So starting to sound like the SFACS may be more accurate. Does that mean theres no need for an Adjustable rising regulator? or would you possibly want both and just have to do some extra tuning?

And so basiclly a wideband is just kinda like an expansion with the mixture tables for higher boost levels? Does it even try to optimize mixture to safe levels given what is available or is it just for monitoring purposes only. If thats all it does then why not just put in a 30$ fuel ratio and egt guage? (other than accuracy)
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Old 01-18-2008, 11:03 AM   #9
Re: APEXi stuff  
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one last question/coment for now, Is it safe to say then theres basiclly four routes to go when adding alot more fuel. Either Sfac, Wideband, 3 Bar map, or the possibly inaccurate a/f and egt guages with new regulator? I'd like to understand if you really only need one or the other or if you should or could use some together if it would make a difference or not. 3 bar map seems more of a hassle trying to get the comp, reflashed to your liking. so i guess you could still have much more options with the sfac, though does sfac function as well or just the same with a narrowband o2 with the voltage limitation?
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:59 PM   #10
Re: APEXi stuff  
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You've kinda got it mixed up. An AFC is a controller, WBO2's and 3Bars are sensors.

The AFC goes inbetween the sensors and the computer and modifies what the comptuer sees. For example, if the voltage output from the MAP sensor is 3V, the AFC recieves that 3 volts, and modifies it to what you think it should be. This will alter what the ECU puts out for injector pulsewidths based on the STOCK tables. Confusing the computer will leave you with the same map you had before.

A wideband O2 sensor is an oxygen sensor with a linear output over the air fuel ratio ranges. This is different than a narrowband O2 sensor, which has a nonlinear output, genearlly centered around the 14.7 ratio. The WBO2 sensor allows you to accurately see what your air fuel ratio is. With that information, you'll use your AFC, calibration, or whatever tuning you'd like (MAP clamp, AFPR, RRFPR, bigger injectors, extra injectors, the list goes on and on and on) to modify your tune and put it in the range that will make the most power.

A MAP sensor is again, another sensor. Using this sensor you can find the pressure in the intake manifold. You can kind of use it to tune by (again) confusing the computer with bigger injectors to compensate for the way a 3bar behaves compared to a 2bar that comes stock. This is a bad idea though.

I reccomend against an AFC because you are only dealing with the stock maps. Check out D-cal and the CHem projects around here before getting an AFC. These actually modify the stock binaries.to accept 3bar map sensors and bigger injectors. You can also modify the tables to alter the spark and fuel curves. No matter how much you play with the AFC you can't mess with the spark tables. Xtreme is right, you can pull or add fuel in custom calibrations, but whe you can make your own custom calibrations for cheaper than the AFC, why even consider it?

None of these care if you have a wideband or a narrowband. You simply can't know what's going on with a narrowband. If it's worht blowing up your engine for, go ahead and skip the WB. I know it says it's OK on donovans page, I know a lot of people do it, but a wideband is only $200 (compared to a narrowband lightshow gauge for $50), and it really is so much more accurate. It's not the 1v vs. the 5v, it's that the narrowband is not linear (as you get further away from 14.7 accuracy drops dramatically), while wideband is linear (accuracy is exactly the same from AFR 7-22).

Narrowband; http://www.stealth316.com/images/o2sensor-output.gif
Wideband; http://www.plxdevices.com/M-Series-C...utputGraph.jpg
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Old 01-18-2008, 06:46 PM   #11
Re: APEXi stuff  
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Well thankyou for the info, It seems every source i've look into these things all say something a little different or just don't give detail leading you to believe a misconception. Think i'm good now. (not that it makes a big difference but i meant to refer to wideband on that last comment)
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:57 PM   #12
Re: APEXi stuff  
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Yeah, depends on if you're being sold it or not . Seriously, D-Cal + LM-1 WB/Logger = good idea. AFC + NB = bad idea.
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Old 01-19-2008, 12:13 AM   #13
Re: APEXi stuff  
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Well i signed up and waiting, I'm intrigued by the usage of the hex editor. So i suppose i'm going to need to buy something to be able to transfer the edited binaries? I guess most of the questions i can find answers to on their forum when that goes through. (do you edit the existing calibration on the spot or is it changed, then updated allowing you to keep the original as a back-up and all that stuff)
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Old 01-19-2008, 12:35 AM   #14
Re: APEXi stuff  
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The safc is alot like the hks gcc and vpc. Best used on maf cars not map ones.
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:25 AM   #15
Re: APEXi stuff  
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I (and a few other people) use this
Ostrich 2.0 : The New Breed [OSTRICH_2] - $175.00 : Moates.Net
it's really cool. Slide the idle table up, hit save, changes happen automatically.
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