can't find the radiator cooling fan relay?

[QwikSRT4]

and which service manual do you have?

My page number "MZ 29" is for the "Liftgate Wiper And Washer System"

My "Air Conditioning & Heater System" is on pg. "MZ 17" and it only shows the 4 pronged relay that I keep finding in all the parts stores here....


I have a 1984 service manual for all FWD Chrysler cars

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikSRT4 and which service manual do you have? My page number "MZ 29" is for the "Liftgate Wiper And Washer System" My "Air Conditioning & Heater System" is on pg. "MZ 17" and it only shows the 4 pronged relay that I keep finding in all the parts stores here.... I have a 1984 service manual for all FWD Chrysler cars

mines an 85
you should also see thats there's another relay between the one in your hand and the fan itself... and 3 switches and a fuse for the A/C

EDIT: my liftgate wiper stuff is on pgs 45 & 46, not that that matters

[Screamin4banger]

...Anyway, from where you are now...

The 18ga dark blue / yellow tracer wire should give you continuity to ground with the A/C switch on...

the 18ga white wire should give you Batt+ voltage with the Ignition switch in RUN.

[allmotor]

holy crap, the guy is an electrician and cant adapt his knowledge to a simple relay circuit. i hope i never have to fly in a plane he fixes.....yikes the posted wiring diagram is crystal clear. it took me 30sec to figure out which wires to test when i replied and i'm no electrician, mechanic or wiring genius.

[QwikSRT4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by allmotor holy crap, the guy is an electrician and cant adapt his knowledge to a simple relay circuit. i hope i never have to fly in a plane he fixes.....yikes the posted wiring diagram is crystal clear. it took me 30sec to figure out which wires to test when i replied and i'm no electrician, mechanic or wiring genius.

I've never seen a relay drawn up like this. There's no need to be a dickhead or insult my ability to do my job in the Air Force. You could try to be helpful like Screamin4banger, but you'd rather take the low road and be insulting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger mines an 85 you should also see thats there's another relay between the one in your hand and the fan itself... and 3 switches and a fuse for the A/C EDIT: my liftgate wiper stuff is on pgs 45 & 46, not that that matters

I wonder if I should just buy an 85 manual then? I've already found two discrepancies (wrong radiator fan relay and wrong location of radiator fan switch). I wonder just how much other things are different?

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikSRT4 I wonder if I should just buy an 85 manual then? I've already found two discrepancies (wrong radiator fan relay and wrong location of radiator fan switch). I wonder just how much other things are different?

I dunno...
this is gonna sound dumb... but are you sure its an 84? check the vin? check the VECI label? check the door for build date? compare vin on door to vin on dash? compare vin on dash to vin on fender tag? find build sequence # stamped in the top of the core support?

I think I remember you saying this car has like 34K on it?
maybe it sat for so long somebody lost the title?
got an 84 title and figured who'd check or care.

I had a car stolen about 10 or so years ago... they re-vinned it and it was driving around with plates on it - 30,000mi in only 6 mos. the only reason I got it back at all was cause my buddy saw it parked at the projects and did donuts in front of the copshop until they chased him over there.

EDIT:
oh, the point of the story was it was an 84 re-vinned and re-titled as an 82

[QwikSRT4]

here's the door sticker and core stamp:


.

It's an 84. I've even Carfaxed it and the VIN comes back as an 84







Also, I pulled the connector off the radiator cooling switch and jumpered it out. The fan didn't kick on. Not the radiator switch, then....

The book reads:

"If the fan is not operating and the relay is suspect replace it with a good relay. Remove the connector from the radiator fan switch and insert a #14 gauge wire into both connector terminals. This process eliminates the need to raise coolant temperature to 93*C in order to close the radiator fan switch. Turn on the ignition key to the accessory position. If the radiator fan operates properly, the replaced relay is faulty. Note also the fan operates whenever the A/C compressor runs no matter what the coolant temperature is."

[allmotor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikSRT4 I've never seen a relay drawn up like this. There's no need to be a dickhead or insult my ability to do my job in the Air Force. You could try to be helpful like Screamin4banger, but you'd rather take the low road and be insulting. I wonder if I should just buy an 85 manual then? I've already found two discrepancies (wrong radiator fan relay and wrong location of radiator fan switch). I wonder just how much other things are different?

listen u. i told u that there was a mid year change, i told u i could see ur switch in the picture, i have in my hands right now the fsm update suppliment for 1984 that shows the running change. no reason to use profanity, i didnt, i just wonder about your abilites to problem solve. i was trained by chrysler to fix cars, but somehow with what i learned from them, i'm able to transfer that knowledge to problem solve on ford, gm, imports, motorcycles, lawn mowers, heavy trucks, bobcats etc.

[QwikSRT4]

Well you questioned my abilities solely on me not being able to understand the relay diagram that is totally foreign to what I'm used to seeing every day. I understand the fundamentals of a relay, but I did not understand the way these relays are drawn.

Thank you for telling me about the mid-year change, and the location of the switch near the thermostat. I know now where it is, and now I've taken that switch out of the equation.


Sorry I used profanity, but I just felt my technical abilities were put into question simply because I didn't understand how the relay was drawn up. I apologize. I'm getting frustrated on not being able to figure this problem out and I don't mean to take it out on you or anyone else.

[allmotor]

no, i questioned ur abilities about reading a simple schematic, ur abilities to find a simple switch, ur abilities to read a schematic to determine the function of a yellow and pink wire. u have a fsm, u have wiring diagrams, y couldn't u connect ur military electrican intellegence to a simplistic automobile electrical system?. just because u dont see something every day, u need to adapt. what happens when a new plane comes out, do u just give up, do u ask ur superior officers to solve the problem that u are suppose to be an expert at? i had to wire my house with 4 switches to operate one light circuit. i never did it before, so instead of posting an internet question about how to wire my house, i read a wiring book, i drew up my own schematics, then i did the wiring. sob, it flipping worked the first time. didn't even need the internet to solve this one. i have no electrician training, never seen it done before, but my automotive electrical experience helped solve this problem. One day my tv took a poop, i really didn't want to spend the money to have it fixed or buy a new one. so i took it apart and did some obvious checks for power to the transformer, power out of the power supply and low and behold, there was a bad solder joint. so i re-soldered most of the entire board. tv works great 20 years later now i need to get a high def box . point is, just because it's "different" doesn't mean you cant use deductive reasoning, pragmatic problem solving approach to discover how the thing works. your simplistic questions of how to test a relay led the readers of your post the idea that you have very little electrical skills.

[QwikSRT4]

Anway, back to the subject at hand. Arguing any further isn't going to do much of anything.

I took the cover off the relay and while the A/C was on, I pushed the arm down on the relay to energize it and the fan kicks on. I don't have the schematic with me (I'm at work), but IIRC, the power that is used to energize that relay comes from the radiator fan switch.

I could have sworn that if you jumpered the two pins in the fan switch it would energize the relay to kick the fan on. It would be in effect, shorting it out...faking the system thinking the coolant temp is high enough to energize the relay.

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikSRT4 I took the cover off the relay and while the A/C was on, I pushed the arm down on the relay to energize it and the fan kicks on.

Ok, you proved that the fan isn't burned out, has a good ground , and you have B+ at C26 14GY... Good, but that doesn't prove the relay works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikSRT4 but IIRC, the power that is used to energize that relay comes from the radiator fan switch.

Nope,
The power(B1 18WT) comes from fuse #2 20 amp and that power comes from the ignition switch in the RUN position.

It gets grounded(C2 18DB/BK) through 1) "clutch thermal switch" 2) "a/c low press switch" 3) the a/c switch in the dash

That's why I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger The 18ga dark blue / yellow tracer wire should give you continuity to ground with the A/C switch on... the 18ga white wire should give you Batt+ voltage with the Ignition switch in RUN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikSRT4 I could have sworn that if you jumpered the two pins in the fan switch it would energize the relay to kick the fan on. It would be in effect, shorting it out...faking the system thinking the coolant temp is high enough to energize the relay.

Yes and No...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger mines an 85 you should also see thats there's another relay between the one in your hand and the fan itself...

I told you that for a reason, the "after-run fan relay" is between the "radiator fan relay" and the fan itself. the temp switch is hooked into that "after-run relay".

that relay might be bad... or any of the wire harness connections or grounds....

so first...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screamin4banger The 18ga dark blue / yellow tracer wire should give you continuity to ground with the A/C switch on... the 18ga white wire should give you Batt+ voltage with the Ignition switch in RUN.

test that so we can move on and get your fan running right

[allmotor]

well, i took 2 min to look at the schematic for your car. the control side of the relay is gounded by the spark control computer. so therefore the computer needs to see a temperature signal to determine when to gound that wire to turn on the fan. (212 deg is the preset value)

see of the white wire has power with the key on. ground the blue/white wire while connected to the relay, the relay will energize and pull over the contacts to run the fan. so if all that works, the relay is good, the power is good, the fan circuit is good, which you already figured out the fan circuit. so now what? you tell us the course of action a diagnositician would talk for the next step.

[QwikSRT4]

I will do this all tonight when I get off work.

Would you suggest getting an 85 FSM since my 84 is obviously incorrect for my car?

[Screamin4banger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikSRT4 Would you suggest getting an 85 FSM since my 84 is obviously incorrect for my car?

eventually, sure... but lets get this figured out first.

I am willing to, if you feel it would be helpful, scan all the wiring diagrams related to the ESA and whatever with all the switches we're talking about for a 2.2 carb motor.

i wont do the whole body wiring and stuff.. just the meat and potatos to get this done. then I would look for a deal on a set for 85.

say the word though... it will take a while to do it.. so I need to know now.