2.2L VS. 2.5L Please! Help Me Decide On My Rebuild

[The Barron]

10 votes for the 2.2
10 votes for a 2.5 w/o CB shafts.


..this is nuts!! haha!

turbovanman,others who have removed the CB shafts say that they have noticed little to NO difference in the vibes. It must be those solid mounts your running or your particular config. But hey.. youve done it both ways and have witnessed the results yourself. Point taken.

[John B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moparzrule Barron-Thats exactly what I mean. No traction, pointless when racing because you loose the race from jsut sitting there.

2.5 with .91 gearset

[The Barron]

so your just saying install higher sped differential?

[TurboMinivan]

So our hero asked us for input and wanted us to base our answers on his specific criteria. Let's remember that criteria then, shall we? Item by item, here are my own recommendations:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Barron My car is an 89' Lebaron Coupe.

Then go 2.5L. The larger and heavier the car, the more torque you want.

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5 clutch a413 /w shift kit.

Another vote for 2.5L. Torque converters are much happier when there is more low-end torque.

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I'll be running between 14-16Psi with a T2 spec setup

A 2.5L with a stock TurboII Garrett turbo feels fabulous in day-to-day driving. You'll get good, quick spoolup to this boost level all day long.

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>I CANT REALLY AFFORD FORGED PISTONS<

Then go 2.5L. You can get replacement Mahle cast pistons in all overbore sizes for dirt cheap... and they'll live forever in your state of tune.

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This will be mostly a cruiser

Another vote for 2.5L.

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Car will encounter more highway races than stoplight races.

I still say 2.5L but with one addition: install a manual valve body. This way you can use your outrageous torque! Until you've driven a 2.5L auto with a MVB and you've tried flooring it w/o a downshift at highway speeds, you just can't fully appreciate the sheer entertainment of mid-range torque. I mean it's good in my 2.2L CSX with an A-555, but it's even better in my 2.5L minivan and its RPMVB.

I know some people have voted for a 2.2L due to its "superior top-end pull" but let's be frank here: while the 2.2 does have a bit more top-end power, its power curve doesn't pull ahead until about 5500 RPM. Knowing that this is not a race-only drag car and thus it will be operated at or below 5000 RPM for say 90% of its use, why emphasize something which can only benefit you 10% of the time at most? It just doesn't make sense.

My vote: 2.5L w/o the balance shafts... and with a manual valve body!

[Turbo Charger]

Quote:

My vote: 2.5L w/o the balance shafts... and with a manual valve body!

Gary (built 2.5 T2 MVB Shadow Es) and I are going to find out if that MVB is gonna allow him to pull away from me on the highway. So far I'm holding with him in 2nd and 3rd. Even if it does, the thing is, his shadow is lighter than my Datona. A Lebaron coupe is not.

Having both a 2.2T2 and a 2.5 T2.. same mods.. my 89 2.5T2 will burn the tires in 1st just by hammering it, the 88 T2 will not. In this case I say the 2.2 is better cause it gets better traction. However, since you are running an Auto tranny, I would say go 2.5 since you won't have that much traction problems anyways.

On the highway I'm sure my 2.2 pulls harder, of course this is only a guess.

[OmniSRT4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Barron Well.. here is what my car did... @ 5-6Psi all I had to do is just put it in drive and mash the throttle and it would smoke the tires. I measured over 80 feet,both tires once. Bottom end=insane. Now the car never cared to be reved over 5200-5500 Rpm. The top spees was 125Mph@5800Rpm. This is in TOTAL stock 89' trim. Actually it never would hit the factory 7 psi or whatever it was. The only thing that I dont like is these numbers: 2.2L T2@14psi= 174hp@5200 | 200ft/lbs@2400 2.5L T1@7psi= 150@4800 | 180@2800 This makes me wonder.. what kind of HP/torque #'s does a 2.5L give up when fed 14psi of intercooled charge? I think.. is sacrificing X numbers of hp/tq at the same boost levels WORTH say.. 10mph of top end?! Just laying down what is going through my mind here. Not being biased.. just asking QUESTIONS.

Those numbers are way off.

2.2-intercooled = 175HP at 12psi
2.5-non-intercooled = 150hp at 9psi

[OmniSRT4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboMinivan So our hero asked us for input and wanted us to base our answers on his specific criteria. Let's remember that criteria then, shall we? Item by item, here are my own recommendations: Then go 2.5L. The larger and heavier the car, the more torque you want. Another vote for 2.5L. Torque converters are much happier when there is more low-end torque. A 2.5L with a stock TurboII Garrett turbo feels fabulous in day-to-day driving. You'll get good, quick spoolup to this boost level all day long. Then go 2.5L. You can get replacement Mahle cast pistons in all overbore sizes for dirt cheap... and they'll live forever in your state of tune. Another vote for 2.5L. I still say 2.5L but with one addition: install a manual valve body. This way you can use your outrageous torque! Until you've driven a 2.5L auto with a MVB and you've tried flooring it w/o a downshift at highway speeds, you just can't fully appreciate the sheer entertainment of mid-range torque. I mean it's good in my 2.2L CSX with an A-555, but it's even better in my 2.5L minivan and its RPMVB. I know some people have voted for a 2.2L due to its "superior top-end pull" but let's be frank here: while the 2.2 does have a bit more top-end power, its power curve doesn't pull ahead until about 5500 RPM. Knowing that this is not a race-only drag car and thus it will be operated at or below 5000 RPM for say 90% of its use, why emphasize something which can only benefit you 10% of the time at most? It just doesn't make sense. My vote: 2.5L w/o the balance shafts... and with a manual valve body!

I'd post details but this guy covered all the basics.

For a heavy street crusier with an auto, use the 2.5.

[The Barron]

TurboMinivan,that is (one of) the most indepth replys I have ever read regarding this subject! Its EXCELENT! All the fog thats been in my head for months over this subject is GONE! Thank you SIR!!

Quote:

A 2.5L with a stock TurboII Garrett turbo feels fabulous in day-to-day driving. You'll get good, quick spoolup to this boost level all day long.

OOOOoooh... I want NOW!..NOW!! HAHA!

Turbo Charger, you and Gary have proven to be good references on and off the board cause you've both have the experience and a good R&D base. I've seen all your guys TD's. Hey where is your brother and his T2 charger in this whole mess anyways?!! HAHA!

Oh..will you guys be doing the 75Km/h pull pretty soon? Gary's second gear is gonna land right in the sweet spot.. hehe.. get ready.

OmniSRT4: Sorry about the HP/TQ ratings. I took those off the allpar site BUT I input the boost levels myself.. I ASSUMED they were 7&14 psi.

This is a pretty good thread and should help others in the future.

[glhsken]

The 2.2L pulls ahead on the power curve of the 2.5L before 5k. Not at 5500 rpm.

but heavy car, go 2.5L for sure with an auto.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moparzrule Barron-Thats exactly what I mean. No traction, pointless when racing because you loose the race from jsut sitting there. T2 rated at 11 PSI 2.5 T1 is 9 PSI Turbovanman- With an auto on the street you are going to want to be able to rev higher and pull hard in the upper RPM's on the highway.

Nah! my 2.5 pulls like a banshee, see Dempeys post,

[The Barron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhsken The 2.2L pulls ahead on the power curve of the 2.5L before 5k. Not at 5500 rpm. but heavy car, go 2.5L for sure with an auto.

Well.. looking at your sig,what you say carries alot of weight in this paticualr issue.



I'll give the thread till the end of today. But its becoming VERY plain what my choice should be in the J-body.
___________________
1989 LeBaron Coupe|2.5L Turbo I Auto
Under Restoration..and then some!
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/420349/1

[2.2TurboJoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboMinivan Then go 2.5L. The larger and heavier the car, the more torque you want. Another vote for 2.5L. Torque converters are much happier when there is more low-end torque. A 2.5L with a stock TurboII Garrett turbo feels fabulous in day-to-day driving. You'll get good, quick spoolup to this boost level all day long. Then go 2.5L. You can get replacement Mahle cast pistons in all overbore sizes for dirt cheap... and they'll live forever in your state of tune. Another vote for 2.5L. My vote: 2.5L w/o the balance shafts... and with a manual valve body!

I agree 100% I love my 2.2's but for your needs and cars weight you would be wishin' you went 2.5!

[The Barron]

HEY! Thanks Joe! Hey loved your vid over in the vid forum against the stang. That was some mad shifting!

[moparzrule]

OK but when your car tops out at a little over 100 don't come cryin to me when a car slower than you beats you simply because you topped out. A 2.2 wouldn't top out until atleast 20 MPH more than a 2.5. And below 40 MPH you are only going to have traction problems on street tires.

[The Barron]

Quote:

OK but when your car tops out at a little over 100

I'm sure your exagerating to prove a point. Even at its worst form the car never got tired around 100-110mph.. UPHILL maybe. I DO know my friends 89' Probe GT turbo could outpull me on top end no trouble.. those were insane on the top end.. at 6-7psi.
I wont come crying at all man. Cause if a measly 5 psi took me to 125mph slick as snot.. I cant imagine what an intercooled 14psi is gonna do. By that speed I hope I have won. If not..then I lost and the other car is faster...really deep huh?

I think the tiresmoke will wow the locals more here than 5-10 more Mph. More ol school muscle car, fog em people.

I dunno. I'll just go and DO it!