2.2L VS. 2.5L Please! Help Me Decide On My Rebuild

[The Barron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman Even though the OEM ones are taking quite the beating over aftermarket, guess with them being so old, there wear hardened, lol!

The local carquest here is selling them for $31 CDN a piece.. so thats about $120+tx ..Forged JE's are gonna set me back $500+


hehe.. $31 a piece... I wonder how well they will stand up? pffft!

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Barron The local carquest here is selling them for $31 CDN a piece.. so thats about $120+tx ..Forged JE's are gonna set me back $500+ hehe.. $31 a piece... I wonder how well they will stand up? pffft!

Well, I will take a photo of my 2 destroyed spark plugs, and the pistons are still fine, despite all the marks on top, IE a blown 2 stroke piston.

[Mopar_Nutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman MoparNutz, theres no such thing as too much torque.

Well I won't argue about that. But on the streets, I'd sacrifice a little torque for a broader powerband and a little more top end. Maybe thats preference or maybe it's just that I'm a 2.2 guy through and through. I remember starting one of these threads a few years ago and it went for pages. Back then I was told many times over that 2.5 was the way to go, but I never did. I'm still running 2.2's.


Ken, Just curious. What was I wrong about?? Not arguing or anything. I just like to know since I write what I believe and it's no good believing the wrong thing, is it?

[Pat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mopar_Nutz Well I won't argue about that. But on the streets, I'd sacrifice a little torque for a broader powerband and a little more top end.

Especially on the street when a 2.2 can make more torque than street tires can handle. Once you make more torque than you can hook up, you'll do nothing but go slower. If you're spinning the tires, what's the point? Especially if the motor is going to run out of breath by 5000 rpm?

Not trying to compare apples to oranges here, but it's a good illustration of how a nice power curve is better than a high low rpm torque peak. When I first put the R/T together, it went 12.1 @ 114. The following weekend, it went to the dyno with no changes and put down 330 ft lbs and 350 whp. The torque number is probably less than a healthy 2.5 8v motor will put down, but the motors power was in a much more useable rpm band. Despite the moderate torque numbers the motor is putting down, the car has great street manners, is never lacking for power to pass anyone and is generally, an absolute animal on the street. My experience with the 8v 2.2's has been similiar(though I've never made that much power with an 8v motor)in that the powerband is in a much more usuable rpm range. Besides, massive low rpm torque numbers means crazy high cylinder pressure which means pistons, headgaskets, detonation, etc.

Can you tell I'm a 2.2 fan? :-)

__________________
Pat Culkin
Rockville, MD
91 Spirit R/T - 12.09 @ 115
89 Spirit ES - 13.53 @ 98

[glhsken]

Pat' don't forget bent rods ')

[glhsken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moparzrule 1.) You said 400 ft/lb, I don't think so on pump gas. 2.) I am not positive, but I believe Gary Donovans relentless was a 2.2 not a 2.5. 3.) A 2.2 will also win in a highway race, sure you might get 2 car lenths from the extra torque, but once you top out at a little over 100 I will be passing you.

1.) I've seen 388 # (let's not nit pick) from a 5 sp 2.5 on pump gas. (driven to the dyno)
2.) Gary was a 2.2 then went 2.5L.
3.) It won't take 100mph. Once you are through the 1st shift. If you drive it right, You are below peak torque for only a coule hundred rpm. The 2.2 gains on the 2.5 and is ahead with 7-800 rpm of steam left.

Opinion only. I know of several 2.5's that will leave me in the weeds.. I also know their mods

How would the 2.5 do with a lower final drive ratio then?? I see that Gary's last setup consisted of 2.5 engine with A413 tranny and 2.76 final gear ratio. Won't this setup make the torque more usable?

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostedscooby How would the 2.5 do with a lower final drive ratio then?? I see that Gary's last setup consisted of 2.5 engine with A413 tranny and 2.76 final gear ratio. Won't this setup make the torque more usable?

I tried a lower gear ratio in my van, hated it, was such a dog. You would need lots of torque to make it work. I had 288 ft/lbs and didn't like it.

[The Barron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman I tried a lower gear ratio in my van, d it, was such a dog. You would need lots of torque to make it work. I had 288 ft/lbs and didn't like it.

what ratio did you try?

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Barron what ratio did you try?

Stock final drive is 3.02 with 1.06 transfer gears and 2.86 ring gear. I used .91 transfer gears, so that works out to 2.60 final drive.

[The Barron]

the turbo's and the n/a trans uses a different final ratio right? Cause I know that the car felt slower off the line after I installed the 90 n/a shadow trans.

[86Shelby]

Turbovanman, that was also in your van wasn't it? That's a pretty heavy beast to be pushing around with a taller gear ratio.

Mr. Donovan's car is also quite light, so the lower gearing helps with traction off the line and being able to use the automatic's 3 gears to get to 130 mph+.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Shelby Turbovanman, that was also in your van wasn't it? That's a pretty heavy beast to be pushing around with a taller gear ratio. Mr. Donovan's car is also quite light, so the lower gearing helps with traction off the line and being able to use the automatic's 3 gears to get to 130 mph+.

correct, my van weights 3450 lbs with me in it. A lighter car will make a difference.

Baron, yeah, some n/a's came with 2.78's so thats why it felt doggy.

I was thinking of going with a 2.76 also in my 87 Lebaron with 2.5 intercooled engine (waiting for arrival of t3/t4 hybrid turbo) with 42lb/hr injectors. Would this give me slower acceleration? I am still trying to decide whether to leave it as is ... 3.02 i believe.... or try the 2.76 while I have the tranny out?

[The Barron]

well stock its a rocket off the line but starts over 3K cruising at 65mph. 2.76 sounds like a good compromise.