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Will not start!

2K views 35 replies 10 participants last post by  lancerman23 
#1 ·
ok guys i feel i have exhausted all avenues trying to get my 87 shelby z tona to start...

list of mod's - are many, i dont know listing them all would help.. figure this out faster..

only thing that is not on the car is the FMIC & piping.. got the timing set (covers and fan belts are all off so i can make sure it will at least idle)

First- it wouldn't start becuase it was leaking fuel and i had hooked up the fuel lines backwards.. upon trying to correct the fuel lines.. the fuel inlet tube off my stock fuel rail BROKE :bang head, luckily i had a billet rail from one of our vendors sitting on the shelf. finally got time to install it, and it will still NOT FREAKING START.. wont even putter like it's catching!

SPARK- YES FROM EVERY PLUG WIRE
FUEL- I KNOW THE RAIL IS FINALLY GETTING PRESSURE! AND THERE'S NO LEAKS.. question is how to do i check to make sure all the connectors for the injectors are getting a signal? i had to sort-of re-route the injectors.. ie flip the connectors so there under neath the rail..
i hope i don't have to pull the rail again..

the rail is alluminum and so are the brakets.. could the brakets be causing a ground issue??

is it possible something is wrong with the injectors? there brand brand new..

i have a stock set i was going to throw in and see if that fixed it..

other than that i dont know what direction to go ? :shrug:... HELP PLEASE
 
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#5 ·
well this has been a 4 year project lol.. and everything was done to it.. full forged bottome end, better tranny & clutch, cv joints.. walboro pump, head work, intake and exhaust mani port jobs ,bigger turbo, new rad, FMIC, on and on.... so it hasn't ran once, at all in four years.. got all the stuff finally put on it and back together.. now i know the timing is on cause you can shot it with ether and it'll fire right up.. no back firing, no sputtering.. but the min you give it fuel it dies....

that's why im leaning to and injector issue... no signal is my guess.. but then i run into the other complications.. is it a ground issue? if so how do you test for it?
If it's a signal issue .. i've got the diod tester's but then i'll have to pull the rail off and test each one i suppose..

is there something wrong in my line of thinking? that i might be missing?
 
#7 ·
Definitely check ground on the injector harness. Also check power to harness make sure it is even getting power. I dont remember the wire... its been a while. Not much help I know but thats where I would start
 
#9 ·
ok guys i feel i have exhausted all avenues trying to get my 87 shelby z tona to start...

list of mod's - are many, i dont know listing them all would help.. figure this out faster..

only thing that is not on the car is the FMIC & piping.. got the timing set (covers and fan belts are all off so i can make sure it will at least idle)

First- it wouldn't start becuase it was leaking fuel and i had hooked up the fuel lines backwards.. upon trying to correct the fuel lines.. the fuel inlet tube off my stock fuel rail BROKE :bang head, luckily i had a billet rail from one of our vendors sitting on the shelf. finally got time to install it, and it will still NOT FREAKING START.. wont even putter like it's catching!

SPARK- YES FROM EVERY PLUG WIRE
looks like he verified spark already to me also the fact that when he adds an alternate fuel source it will run, he's not getting fuel but has spark.
 
#10 ·
There is a ground wire on the Injector Harness that screws right down on the Intake Manifold, and another from the right side of the Intake Manifold to the firewall, at least on my car. If there is indeed fuel pressure in the rail, the only way fuel is not getting to the cylinder is because the injectors are not firing/opening. The engine fires when ether is sprayed into it, so he has spark. Injectors do not ground on the fuel rail since they are held in place with O-Rings. The harness needs to be grounded for the electrical circuit to complete. So the question is why fuel is not getting to its final destination...
 
#11 ·
I know fuel is definitely getting to the rail..4the injector wasn't clocked right when i bolted the fail down, and when i went to go start it fuel was gushing out of that hole..also i took the feed line off the rail and had some one turn the key on and fuel comes flowing out of it.. so next option is injectors aren't firing..

I'm going to move the injector harness ground somewhere else and see if that does it..
 
#14 ·
Haven't seen any fault codes- i can check those tonight

I do have a set of noid lights- just dont want to pull the dang thing apart again..for the 100th time.. but if it helps figure out what's wrong guess i'll half to

Sensor valves- have not checked them while cranking... YET!! i will make that part of my list.. thanks NAJ...

Question- i have a set of T3 manuals ... the values are going to be different aren't they? between the two engines?
i have a regular Chilton Manual that is supposed to cover all the turbo and non-turbo engines.. is that going to be a good source to tell me what range/voltage it should be getting on those sensors?
 
#16 · (Edited)
#17 ·
list of mod's - are many, i dont know listing them all would help.. figure this out faster..
full forged bottome end, better tranny & clutch, cv joints.. walboro pump, head work, intake and exhaust mani port jobs ,bigger turbo, new rad, FMIC, on and on....
Cal?
3 Bar or 2 Bar Map?
Injector Size?
 
#20 ·
1) For '87, there should be a ground wire from the injector harness that goes under one of the fuel rail bolts. Still have that?

2) Is the aluminum fuel rail anodized? The anodized portion of the aluminum does not conduct. So, you'll want to put the ground strap against the intake (IE, under the fuel rail bracket), and/or remove the anodizing where the ground strap is touching the rail.
 
#21 ·
this is the billet fuel rail from TU, he gives you new mounts and there aluminum also.. the ground strap for the injection harness is in it's stock location.. i am just not as certain that it grounds as good as the stock steal one.. it's hard to believe that nobody on here is running one that can verify for me..

2-it just bare aluminum not anodized.. im going to move/ lengthen the ground strap to the back side of the intake and see if that will help and a list of other things.
 
#22 ·
it being plain aluminum will ground just fine really. there are some things that noone can verify for you, some things require you to perform your own checks and make determiations based off those checks since it's your car and we cant be where you are. remember, the intake is aluminum as well, so if you think it wasnt grounding correctly on the fuel rail, how's it going to on the intake? either place should supply a fine ground, just make sure it's hooked up and clean and tight.
 
#26 ·
Injectors are electromagnets. They have a (+) connector and a (-) connector. The computer sends the electricity to the injectors and unless things have changed, injectors get 12 volts. If there is no ground at the injector level, they do nothing. Try checking your injector harness for continuity. Disconnect one of the injector connectors and with your ohmmeter on continuity setting, touch the injector ground side and with the other, where your harness ground is bolted to. It should beep and do the same to the Neg plug on the Harness Connector itself. Unless the color of the wires changed, and there are extra connectors for something else, the injector connectors have a green and a white wire.

A very simple way to test the ground once and for all is to take your Injector Harness ground where it is bolted to the manifold and using a set of jumper wires, connect one end to the NEGATIVE side of the Battery and the other end to the Eyelet (I said jumper wires because they are easy, you can if you want take another wire with an eyelet and with a small bolt, bolt the eyelets together and then take and connect the other end to the Neg Bat Terminal) Just make sure you connect to NEGATIVE side of battery. That Definitely grounds it!!! You can't get a better ground than that. Now crank the engine and see if it fires up (going as you have said numerous times that there is definitely fuel/fuel pressure in the rail). If it does, you know you definitely have a ground problem and need to correct that. If it doesn't, then the problem is with the power side of the connector/computer and you can test the injectors through the harness, so, disconnect your harness connector, to see if they click by finding on your Harness Connector which are the (+) and then touching them with a wire that comes from the (+) side of the battery. Leaving the temporary ground as it is. If it clicks, reground your harness to the manifold as it was originally and try again. If it clicks, the ground was not an issue and the problem is with the computer or the (+) wires that come from the computer. If I am not mistaken, the 87 was a LM? 88 was SMEC.
 
#27 ·
SID ^ that was very indepth! thank you!! that gives me more to test off of.. i'll do that and repost tonight ..


thanks again.. you also recommended maybe taking the rail off and seeing if the injectors fire? but i dont think there's any way for me to hold the injectors in place while the rail if pressurizing at 45-50 psi... is there? im pressure sure they'll just pop right off..
 
#28 ·
Hi, No need to take off the rail. Just the injector harness connector.

That is to test to see if the injectors click but the first step is to do the definite ground to the injector harness.
With the injector harness ground wire connected to the battery negative, you know it is definitely grounded, you crank up your car. (you can also run a wire from the battery negative and loosen the ground eyelet bolt, slide it under the eyelet and tighten it down. This will definitely ground not only the injector harness but the entire manifold itself) If it starts, you know it is a ground issue and you will need to add a few more grounds. (Mine has the steel braided ground strap from the intake manifold to the firewall. I put another from the battery negative to the inner fender and a third on the right engine mount from one of the bolts over to the engine bracket). But if when you crank it up, the engine does not fire, then you disconnect your harness connector that you see in the pic. You then run a wire from the positive battery terminal so you can just touch the Positive terminals in the harness connector which go directly to the injector. You should hear a click as you touch the injector Positive terminals one by one. You can touch the injector that is clicking and you will be able to feel the magnet click on and off as you touch the terminal tip. If they click, it means they work. If they do not click, the injector harness has a ground problem inside somewhere that needs to be found or replace the harness. Now, is when you remove the negative wire from the battery negative to see if they work with the way it was originally grounded. Touch them again one by one to see if they click. If they also click that tells you that your grounds definitely are OK and the problem is then with the computer or, wires from the computer to the connector.
When my son's car had this problem, the one in the pic, it gave no codes. It fired with ether or gasoline put into the intake manifold, drove us nuts. We did each of these steps and it ended up being the ground, reason for all the extra grounds on the car but, a neighbor/friend who had the same problem a few years later, was not so lucky and went the next step which is to check for continuity from the injector harness connector to the computer connector... All the injector wires had continuity, in other words, they were good. His ended up being the SMEC.
 
#31 ·
ok so checked the harness ground and still no start.. so going onto to checking to see if i can get the injectors to click.. but which ones are the positive wires? my chilton manual is crap i have a few other manuals but there not telling me either?

do i just hook up the lead wire to the positive post and just start touching each blade in the connector to see which one will click?
 
#33 ·
ok what did i do wrong SID? hooked a lead wire straight from the battery positive terminal and touched the wire's on the injection harness and only two of them did something something.. the bottom two blades, they both made a massive spark!!

wtf?! im lost.. does this mean that since i touched the other blades and they did nothing.. the harness is bad? and i must have touched the ground wire/'s??:shrug:

first picture is trying to show the color of the wires.. front & back third picture tells you what blades decided to spark at me when i touched them with the power lead wire..
 

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