[allardtom]

UPDATE: 18 FEB

After almost three years the car is back in my possession... I'm a pretty driven guy, but this project is wearing me down. There are lots of reasons that I frankly just don't have the emotional energy to articulate in a professional manner. Bottom line: I paid another $18,000 and spent three years for a result that is geometrically better, but still un-drivable.

Here is where we're at:
- We have a bolt in design on a front and rear cross member that needs to be driven / tested to verify performance and safety

Here is what needs to be done to drive and test the car:
- Fix the clutch, at this point 90% certain the slave cylinder doesn't have enough volume. I've already pulled the pedal assembly and will work with American Powertrain (vendor I bought clutch and throwout bearing from) to determine which bore size Wilwood unit will work. I did this one to myself since I tried to use a 2010 Challenger slave cylinder assuming it would have enough volume, but I hadn't done the math so no joy.
- Fix the fuel injection. Pretty sure this is a minor electrical issue that is related to speedometer and throttle body. Basically I can drive the car around but when I go full throttle the engine cuts out. When in neutral the engine revs just fine. Since I have successfully used hotwire harnesses in other builds I'm confident Chris and I will resolve this. Today I'll lower the transmission and Trans cross-member since I can see when the car was reassembled that the harness is getting crushed between the tunnel and trans. I'll inspect and re-route harness to speedometer pick up go from there.

Here's what I think needs to be done to finish the car:
- Make a custom rear gas tank that uses factory fuel filler tube, fuel pump, and fuel level sender. This will now require re-routing the exhaust tail pipes
- Revise the passenger header to make the exhaust more symmetrical
- Install emergency brake lever, center console, and extend shifter about 3" rearward

I'll send pictures as progress is made

Tom

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 18 FEB

Clutch slave cylinder diagnosis. Bottom line even a moderately sized wildwood displaces 1/3 more volume. Now I just need to know how much volume the throw out bearing needs to fully disengage the clutch and we should be in business.

2010 Challenger cylinder: volume = .488
- 2.175 bore length
- 1.15 effective stroke
- .735 bore diameter

For example a 3/4 wildwood cylinder: volume = .716
- 3.375 bore length
- 1.6875 effective stroke (estimated as 1/2 bore length as above)
- .750 bore diameter

Wilwood Disc Brakes - Master Cylinders: Compact Remote Side Mt Master Cyl-1/8 NPT Outlet

Also dropped exhaust, trans cross member and rerouted speedometer wiring. In doing so I remembered I had to solder on a different connector for the viper T56 speed sensor. My suspicion is the viper sensor is not talking to the computer. The good news is the wires all looked good, there was some rubbing, but no breaks or chaffing that exposed the wires.

Tom

 

[INSATANSSEAT]

Tom. Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble. Doing the R&D for a marketable bolt on system is way different than what guys have done with one off RWD builds. Just stick with it. You are almost there!

Does your state require vehicle inspections? As far as the fuel injection issue is concerned; could a mod man setup with a carb and low profile air cleaner ever stand a chance of fitting under the hood? I know a lot of guys feel that's back paddling because EFI is "better", but the electrical stuff is still an enigma for many guys.

 

[allardtom]

INSATANSSEAT,

We are close. I immediately started working on the car once I got it home so the passion is still there. I plan to sort all the little things out on this car and drive it for awhile before I re-engage with fabricators. Just need a break from that right now.

Interestingly enough I found this company on Ebay that has a manifold that folks can use either way. Link below. As with anything there is a tradeoff when moving away from the long runners in the factory manifold we'll give up some torque, but pretty sure the car will still feel fast. With the hotwire integration harness Chris makes it easy. Send him the Daytona harness then literally plug everything in. The 66 Charger and the 1st Daytona both used a hotwire harness and were fine, I'm sure this is something minor.

OCPerformance Parts, LLC. - EFI testing on a 2005 Chrysler 300c Early 5.7L

Thanks for the encouragement! Always appreciate your posts, great to hear from you.

Tom

 

[LaserDad]

Tom, don't quit on us. There are others, like me, that have wanted to do this project for years, but were afraid to take it on. If you can provide a kit, we will buy it.

 

[allardtom]

LaserDad,

Thank you. I genuinely appreciate everyone's patience!!

Tom

 

[Spirited1]

Tom,

I'm still rooting you on as well. I'd like to have one of your kits when you get all the testing and kinks worked out.

-Nate

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 20 FEB

Spoke with Wilwood today and American powertrain. Confirmed the throwout bearing requires .7 for volume to fully displace. A 7/8 cylinder is pretty close and a 1" is over. Decided to get 7/8 since to change to a 1" afterwards will be no change to mounting. Math below:

Challenger Wilwood
2.175 bore length 3.375
1.150 stroke 1.120
0.735 diameter 0.750 0.813 0.875 1.000
0.488 volume 0.495 0.581 0.673 0.880
3/4 13/16 7/8 1

Target
0.700 volume

Ordered the banjo cylinder style to save room and cut down on fittings since I also ordered a 3/8 banjo to 3AN 24" flex line. Once parts arrive I'll send pictures since I'll have to completely refabricate the mounting. Brings me to a request...

Does anyone have a clutch/brake pedal assembly they'd like to sell? I made custom clutch pedal last time and I'd like to try to get a factory pedal to work to make it easier on folks.

Also ordered some banjo fittings for the power steering lines that connect to rack body. Just don't like the look of 90 degree fittings, and more importantly a banjo fitting can be positioned any way verses the 90 that is dependent on when it gets tight in the threads.

I found one pedal assembly here on TD for $35 and asked it about it just a few minutes ago, but figured I'd ask here too.

Thanks!
Tom

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 20 FEB

Talked with Chris from hotwire. Speedometer doesn't impact throttle response. I pulled codes and will run them by him. One thing we did discuss was a vacuum leak can cause a fault. I had a new set of intake gaskets so I replaced them. The ones that were there had been on and off a few times so they make have been worn. I started the car on the jack stands in 1st gear, I was able to give the engine throttle so we'll see if that was it.

Also played around with the 5.7 Hemi engine cover. I had to modify the air filter a bit to get it to fit since there is no room to run a cold air intake, but it fit and the hood shuts! I'll search around and see if I can find a slightly shorter and wider filter.

I have videos of engine running. Not the best quality, but it's off my phone and had to keep them short to keep file size small. If someone can tell me how to load them here I will.

Tom

 

[allardtom]

Links to videos:

enjoy

Tom

 

[89TonaVa]

Tom. I have at peddle assembly in an 88 Tona and can salvage for you.

 

[allardtom]

89TonaVa,

Awesome! I'll get back to you once the Wilwood cylinder arrives and I have had a chance to look at mounting options.

It may be a week or two before I can get back to you.

Tom

 

[89TonaVa]

Thats cool.

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 4 MAR

Received the Wilwood cylinder and it looks like I'm going to have to put the cylinder in the engine compartment, which will require me to redo the brake master cylinder mount.

I see this as a good thing. I will go back to the Daytona master cylinder and I'll make a new plate and I'll mount an additional reservoir for the clutch. In doing so folks will not have to source a Challenger master cylinder and we will not need a custom clutch pedal since now I believe the stock pedal will work fine because I'm not trying to cram a cylinder under the dash.

Also redid the power steering rack transfer lines that modern did. I converted the rack fittings to banjo fittings therby eliminating 2x 90 degree elbows and generally it just cleaned up the look.

Tom

 

[LaserDad]

Also redid the power steering rack transfer lines that modern did. I converted the rack fittings to banjo fittings therby eliminating 2x 90 degree elbows and generally it just cleaned up the look.

I know you are busy, but can you list the parts for the banjo fitting conversion? I really like the concept.

 

[allardtom]

LaserDad,

You'll need the following: all these parts I sourced from Ebay

- 2x Banjo Bolt M12x1.25mm to 4AN fittings
- 2x M12x1.25 to 4AN straight fittings
- 2x 4AN straight to 90 degree braided stainless lines (roughly the same length as the hard lines you currently have)

Background: When Unisteer rebuilds the rack and flips the center tube 180 degrees to put the ports on the bottom of the rack (allows us to get the rack closer to the oil pan) they will return the rack with hard lines just like the factory. I would've preferred to leave the hard lines, but where the lines curve to connect to the rack stuck down below the oil pan so the only reason I do this conversion is to gain ground clearance.

Hope this helps
Tom

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 10 MAR 17

I received the factory clutch pedal from 89TonaVa and the blank aluminum 1/2 plate.

- Marked and drilled vacuum booster holes. Tapped to 8mm 1.25mm which is the stock thread. Used bolts for now but plan to put in threaded studs
- Marked and drilled master cylinder holes. Tapped to 8mm 1.25mm and mounted factory brake master cylinder
- Marked and drilled 1 3/4" hole in firewall and plate for Wilwood clutch master cylinder, tapped mounting holes to 8mm 1.25mm
- Made a U shape bracket that attaches to the back of the factory clutch pedal and attached female spherical rod end
- Installed aluminum adaptor plate, brake and clutch master cylinder

I need to remove the clutch master cylinder and shorten the rod since the pedal does not go to the floor, but I think even after taking an inch out of the rod the pedal will never really make it to the floor and it will most likely just bottom out the cylinder. I'm good with that as long as it looks close. Once that's complete I'll add brake fluid and bleed both the brakes and clutch

With any luck this will be the final chapter in the clutch saga

Tom

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 11 MAR 17

Well... clutch works beautifully! Unfortunately there is still an issue with the drive by wire. The car still won't accelerate more than 1/4 throttle. Still working with Chris at Hotwire to figure this out. It's odd since I've built 2x other cars with this set up and they ran awesome. I'm sure we'll get it.

After 4 long years... it was nice to go for a ride today. Even though I couldn't accelerate hard, I was really impressed with how smooth the car felt. The steering was just like my 1992 Daytona and the suspension was firm, but not bouncy. First impression is this car is going to drive amazing.

I also adjusted the rear suspension up 1/2" today. Not sure why modern lowered it so far, I'm guessing because they were playing with pinion angle, but it was so low I had very little up travel in the shock. There is a lot of adjustment in the front and rear suspension with this set up and I'm sure I'll be spending a lot more time getting the best balance between street and track settings.

We're so close... this is by far my best version of this conversion. This car has all the best drive ability characteristics of a stock Daytona, but with 2-3x the power!

Tom

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 12 MAR 17

I got it!!

Sometimes gut instincts are right. After checking every vacuum leak I could I decided to disconnect the speedometer pick up at the transmission and viola!! Accelerates in every gear!!


Now... what do I need to do so I can re-connect the speedometer???


Truly a banner day... well got to go I'm going out for a drive!!!

Tom

 

[allardtom]

UPDATE: 13 MAR 17

As expected the factory clutch pedal wasn't strong enough to handle the additional load the hydraulic clutch cylinder put on it so it bent. Took the clutch peddle out, straightened it and have a plan. That is why I had made a custom peddle before, but in the spirit of giving folks an opportunity to re-use as many factory parts as possible I went back to the factory peddle. The inside dimension of the peddle is 1 1/8" so I ordered 12" of Alloy Steel 4130 Round Tubing, MIL-T 6736B, 1-1/8" OD, 1.009" ID, 0.058" Wall. Ultimately, I'm happy I went back to the factory peddle since it will still look stock when I'm done.

Once I receive the tube I'll send pictures of how I'll use the tube to strengthen the clutch peddle.

Even though I still have a bunch of little things to sort out I can't even put into words how happy I am with how the car drives. Really impressed with how this car drives, keep in mind my daily drivers are a 1992 5-speed IROC Daytona and a 2015 6-speed Hellcat, so when I say it's well balanced I'm comparing it against what it was originally and what's available today. I have to give credit where it's due, Lee did a really nice job sorting out the front end geometry.

The drive yesterday also revealed another "issue". All this time of moving the car around with the clutch not fully disengaged took it's toll on the clutch. I noticed under hard acceleration the clutch slips... Certainly something I'll have to address, but I'm going to drive the car for awhile first!

Tom