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post #1 of 14 Old 10-09-2018, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

I'm currently planning to take the 3.3 that is in my '05 Grand Caravan, and put it into a Shadow convertible I've found on kijiji.
My current plan of attack has a few steps:

1. Basic maintenance

Throughout the winter I'll perform standard maintenance that probably never happened (Spark plugs, maybe injectors, other small things) and do regular oil changes, basically have it running the best I can.
This step also includes some basic research, reading up on both the Megasquirt 2 and other 3.3 swaps. (The motor is sequential injection from stock, does batch cause any problems? Also, will the resistor method work for ignition coils or will I need a bunch of BIP373s?)
Doing this at that time because I simply don't want to work on a car while laying on ice in the cold (no indoor shop directly available).

2. Preparation

This will involve me buying the necessary components (Like the recipient vehicle) and figuring out how everything will lay out. Assembling the ECU and other things of that nature. Also may involve me driving the other vehicle stock, just to get a baseline for feel and see if I even like the car (What are the odds that the floor is rotted out from soft top leaks and winter driving?)

3. The swap

My current plan of attack is to just throw the engine in and bada-bing bada-boom everything works. I plan to get a car with a manual trans, how difficult is it to bolt a 2.2/5 trans to the v6 engine line? Adapter plate necessary or can I just do some drilling? From the most basic of research, it seems like the flywheel will just bolt on no problem (If it comes with the 3.0 that would make things infinitely easier).
Fuel pump and battery will come from the van, maybe the relay box as well.

4. Improvements

Basically any performance mods I want to try. I can probably get a 3.8 cam from a local junkyard and maybe build a custom box intake. And if all else fails, I'll find a cheap turbo and see what happens.

Any other suggestions or info would be very helpful, I have no idea what I'm doing. Having the plan posted somewhere makes it seem a bit more final and solid.
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post #2 of 14 Old 10-09-2018, 02:47 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

There are no proven "bolt-on" 5-speed options for the 3.3/3.8L engines. The closest thing I'm aware of is the T850 from the early 2000's Stratus R/T with the 2.7 and 5-speed because the 2.7 has old roots in the 3.3.

The 3.3 and 3.8 use a giant tone wheel attached to the flywheel, so you'll have to figure that out unless you go with an aftermarket ECU.

Beyond that, there's even less support and information on these engines as almost no one messes with them. The old Shelby CanAm is the best example.

IMHO, you're better off going with a 3.0 if you really want a V6. Better and stronger engine and objectively more support (although not much).

However, if it's what you have and what you want to mess with...go for it!
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post #3 of 14 Old 10-09-2018, 03:08 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

would suggest a 6g72 mitsu DOHC 3.0 or 3.5 montero swap first man. especially if you want a 5 speed.
DOHC NA 3.0 is 225HP stock.
would be even more fun to find a MIVEC 3.8 to swap. from an eclipse.
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post #4 of 14 Old 10-09-2018, 04:47 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Just swap the automatic from your van with it if you want it to work without huge re-engineering. I looked into the T850 swap some years back and it just involves too much IMHO. I wanted to do a 3.5 24V (Chrysler) engine as I am not a Mitsubishi fan. But if you want a manual transmission Mitsubishi is really your only option. The 3.0 with a 5-speed would be very easy.
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post #5 of 14 Old 10-09-2018, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Direct quote from the Allpar 3.0 page:

"According to two Chrysler mechanics I'm in touch with, the A543 5 speed can be mated to the 3.3/3.8 motors. It seems that the major difference for the 3.0 and 3.3 bell housings is the "cutout" on the 3.0 version for the water inlet from the radiator. Other than that, they appear to be the same."

Another note, I'm not looking for alternatives, I'm just posting my current plan of action with some questions thrown in. I already have the 3.3 in my minivan, so that's the engine I'm using.
I would carry over the transmission, but it's electronic, and I don't want to carry over every module from the van just to make a transmission work. Unless there's an easy way to hack in the autostick for a pseudo-manual experience.
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post #6 of 14 Old 10-09-2018, 08:43 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

If you can get the A543 to work with a 3.3/3.8 you will be legend. I hope that you can and do make it work. I never got it off the drawing board.
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post #7 of 14 Old 10-10-2018, 03:10 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

The A604/41TE transmission doesn't use a whole lot of different stuff. In '05 the tranny controller and the engine controller I believe are in the same module. On our older 80's and '90's cars it is controlled by a separate controller, but the harness is integrated into the engine bay harness. You *might* have to adapt a newer gear selector for the PRNDL switch, but that's something you'll have to figure out with your transmission and controller.

Your best bet is to research and read...a LOT right now. I understand what you want to do, but I don't think you understand fully what is entailed.
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post #8 of 14 Old 10-10-2018, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

I know enough to understand that I have no idea what I'm doing.
I'm still in phase one at the moment; research and acquire materials.

The engine computer of choice is most likely the Megasquirt 2 V3.0, because it's fairly cheap and may have the NGC code to make the stock crank/cam sensors work.

Has anybody tried to mock up a 2.2 transmission against a v6 engine? Could I make it mount just with some drilling? If that's not an option I can probably search around for either the T850 or A543. If that still goes nowhere there are transmission controller add-ons for the Megasquirt to control the 41TE.

Last edited by tOSdude; 10-10-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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post #9 of 14 Old 10-12-2018, 09:13 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Hey tOSdude,

Here is a list of things that I've compiled for the 3.3/3.8 engines.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

For engine management you can use the stock NGC computer and use Syked tuning software to enable/disable features on it. Flyin' Ryan Performance can tune it if you're not comfortable tuning it yourself. You can also use Speeduino (~$100), RusEFI ($150), or MegaSquirt ($150+). The only problem with using an aftermarket ECU is they don't have the cam signal, which means you have to use wasted spark and batch fire injection. However, I've contact both RusEFI and Speeduino and both said they would gladly add the cam signal if someone recorded it with their respected boards. MegaSquirt basically told me to shove it, engine isn't popular enough.

As for transmissions, you have 3 main choices, 5-speed manual T-850 from a 2.7L Sebring, 4-speed 41TE (stock TCM or MegaShift), and a 6-speed (technically 7) 61TE which may or may not work with MegaShift, but you could also play hard and loose and wire up the trans to your own shifter and shift it off the solenoids like a boss.

So yeah. Good stuff.
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post #10 of 14 Old 10-15-2018, 01:52 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Unless you've figured out the sequence for the solenoids, you can upshift all day long, but you ain't getting it back into 1st gear!
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post #11 of 14 Old 10-15-2018, 01:59 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Yeah, that's true. The solenoid for 1st gear needs to be primed or something. That's where a controller will need to come into play.
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post #12 of 14 Old 10-16-2018, 01:53 PM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by tOSdude View Post
Megasquirt to control the 41TE.
That is a dead end. In fact, MS removed all 41TE support in the last firmware update.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Trans_Control-1.1.pdf

41TE codes removed.
http://www.msextra.com/downloads/dev...pre-1-1-beta1/
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post #13 of 14 Old 10-17-2018, 08:15 AM
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Well that sucks... Maybe I can ask TwistedBuilds if his Arduino transmission controller can be used.
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post #14 of 14 Old 10-17-2018, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 3.3 Swap Dodge Shadow Plan

Reading the notes, it appears to be a separate controller than the MegaShift project. 41TE control with a Megasquirt may still be possible, although I will be trying to track down a T850 myself, seems like a better option than trying to adapt the A523.
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