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post #1 of 29 Old 01-14-2018, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Masi timing marks/ cam gears

I have a strange situation.
I am tearing down my DOHC Masi and have found an issue with the timing marks on the cam, crank, and intermediate shaft.
When the motor is on top dead center, the oil pump/ distributor is off one tooth and the cam key ways are pointed (E at 3 o’clock and intake is at 12 o’clock?
This motor runs and I drove it about 115miles after purchasing?
I pulled the valve cover to pin the cams to verify proper alignment, only to find the cam actually has 4 pin holes… 90° apart?
My question is ;
Is the factory manual correct, do the key ways point toward each other (point toward the center)
Q2
The cam gears on my motor are attached to the cams the same orientation as the intermediate shaft (it appears that they were installed backwards?)
They are marked front (visiable), but this looks incorrect when viewing the FSM

Any comments would be appreciated.







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post #2 of 29 Old 01-14-2018, 02:49 PM
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

Okay hope I don't confuse you. The camshafts have 2 pins each and 2 keyways. They are made this way so they are interchangeable. With that said, they must be orientated properly. It looks like someone in the past has screwed this up. Usually the camshafts are marked E or I, but not always. Make sure the motor is at TDC on the compression stroke. I say this only because as you know, the camshafts turn at half the speed of the crankshaft. It sort of looks like in photo that exhaust is correct, but that intake is way off. I'm surprised it even ran. It looks like the intake cam key is in the wrong keyway. I believe it is in the exhaust keyway. I'm enclosing a pic or two so you can see how the camshaft lobes should be aligned at TDC. I'll bet your exhaust is correct, and intake is off.
The camshaft keys are supposed to point towards each other say 9 and 3 o'clock. The marks on the sprockets should actually point just barely below 9 and 3 o'clock. IIRC, that wording or pic changed in FSM between the two years. I highly doubt your intermediate shaft sprocket is on incorrectly, IIRC, it is opposite of 8V SOHC applications.
I'll bet it runs a whole bunch better after you set cam timing correctly. Good job knowing you have a problem!
PM me if you need more info.
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Last edited by 4 L-bodies; 01-14-2018 at 09:53 PM. Reason: added 1 more pic
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post #3 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

Ok, I did verify that the cam gears were installed backwards and one keyway was 90° off. Surprisingly the motor was in time, but 180° off and distributor was one tooth off installed 180° out!
I believe the intermediate shaft gear was also installed backwards



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post #4 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears



This is the intermediate gear as I found it!


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post #5 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

The cam pic is after correcting the keyway gear issue


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post #6 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

My only thought was, WTF!
Who was inside this motor!
And why dear god!!


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post #7 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 02:33 PM
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

The intermediate shaft sprocket is intended to be installed backwards.
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 02:38 PM
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

Watch this Chrysler training video. There is a ton of very specific information.

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post #9 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

Mmm…video link is broken,
Why then is the FSM show the intermediate gear opposite of the cam gears ?



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post #10 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

For belt alignment ?
It appears on my Masi that the crank sprocket is spaced much further from the seal / housing than a normal turbo dodge.
Is this normal?


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post #11 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

With cam gears and intermediate gear opposite of a SOHC the sprockets all line up. So I’m assuming the FSM is in error?


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post #12 of 29 Old 01-15-2018, 11:40 PM
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

Copy and paste this into your browser:
youtu.be/l_m918Vqpt8




If Todd is correct about the cam markings, there may have been two different generations of this motor. At least the first version had the keyway markings in Italian. The video states that intake keyway is marked A for Aspirazione, and the exhaust keyway marked S for Scarico. There is a possibility that Chrysler gave Maserati revisions to make the 16V engine system more unified in serviceability. There could have been a service bulletin covering the change, and the design that they produced more of may have won the spot in the new FSMs. I may be blowing pointless hot air though. Are you on Facebook? We started a TC page. There are a few guys there that have had many of these cars.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/214587365752432/
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-16-2018, 10:22 AM
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast2dodge View Post
For belt alignment ?
It appears on my Masi that the crank sprocket is spaced much further from the seal / housing than a normal turbo dodge.
Is this normal?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast2dodge View Post
With cam gears and intermediate gear opposite of a SOHC the sprockets all line up. So I’m assuming the FSM is in error?


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The unique Masi crank sprocket is spaced out further than a SOHC because the cam sprockets wouldn't clear the cylinder head otherwise. Here is a pic of the aux. shaft pulley on an assembled longblock, and various 2.2 crank sprockets.
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-16-2018, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

My motor is an early motor, (fuel pump block plate)
And has the crank gear you have marked as CB.
Your pick appears to show the intermediate gear as any other 2.2/2.5.
But with my motor the intermediate gear must be opposite of normal for belts to line up?



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post #15 of 29 Old 01-16-2018, 01:51 PM
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Re: Masi timing marks/ cam gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast2dodge View Post
My motor is an early motor, (fuel pump block plate)
And has the crank gear you have marked as CB.
Your pick appears to show the intermediate gear as any other 2.2/2.5.
But with my motor the intermediate gear must be opposite of normal for belts to line up?



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It has been awhile since I had an early block Masi engine tore down. I have heard nearly half of all 501 16v Masi engines were early blocks. It is very possible and probable that the aux. shaft pulley needs to be reversed for an early block. The pic I sent was a CB. Orientation should be obvious, It will fit properly only one way. One that I worked on many years ago was a pre production engine and had no mark (dot) on crank sprocket for aligning TDC. I ended up marking the sprocket myself. I guess the thought was using the TDC/BDC marks on flywheel for finding that. That engine also had other things that differed from production engines.

Todd
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