1986 glhs #163 - Page 2 - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!
Turbo Dodge Help Urgent help when something goes wrong with your Dodge and you can't figure out what the problem is. Troubleshooting help and the place to post when you're stuck with a broken car and have to get to work the next day.

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post #16 of 54 Old 11-02-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

If it is bucking at full throttle, you might have a vacuum line that is leaking under boost and allowing boost to go over the factory max setting which is about 14.7psi. The condition we call 'over boosting' and when this occurs the ECU cuts fuel to the engine momentarily till the boost comes down, then fuel is restored. This is a fairly violent event and is horrible on the drivetrain. It is a "WTF was that moment" when it occurs. So if what you describe is fairly violent and severe then you probably have a leaving vacuum line. The best way to find them for me is to use my portable air tank with a trigger nozzle. You can pressurize a single line at a time or the entire harness and the leaky line will either pop off or you will hear and be able to quickly and easily find the leak. Small zip ties on the ends of the vacuum hoses are a must.

If what you have going on is not so violent, then you have some other problem. I think the #2 reason for our cars to buck or backfire or stumble under boost is poor fuel pressure. Under boost the engine needs quite a bit more fuel. 1psi more fuel for each pound of boost. After years of pumping fuel our pumps get tired and don't deliver enough under boost, engine go lean and that is bad for a turbo engine. A fuel pressure gauge is good to have. Attach it inline with the fuel supply or at the fuel rail schrader valve if you have one and with engine running, pinching the fuel return line should put the meter quickly to 100psi or more and it should stay there for as long as you hold the line. No need to hold the line for more than a few seconds. If it jumps to 100psi and holds it for several seconds, the pump is doing its job.

An overboost will typically set a code in the ECU as well.
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post #17 of 54 Old 11-02-2017, 07:59 PM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

Interesting thread so far...Subscribed!
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post #18 of 54 Old 11-03-2017, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

Good Morning,

I just took the car for a drive with the boost gauge and the fuel gauge hooked up. Under boost i have 35psi at the gauge. Im assuming the fuel pump needs to be replaced. Is there a pump on the inside of the tank as well. I noticed a new fuel filter and a pump next to it.

Also the fuel gauge is not functional.
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post #19 of 54 Old 11-03-2017, 10:06 AM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

An 86 GLHS will typically have two fuel pumps. One external and one internal. You can convert to just an in-tank pump if you like which is what the factory did starting late 86 and in 87 on the Charger. The factory external pump is no longer available at the dealer but there is one currently selling on eBay, NOS in the box but the seller wants $300. The intank pump is also NS1 as is the hanger/sender from the dealer. You can get a Walbro 190 or 255 from one of the popular turbo Dodge parts dealers for abut $125 delivered to your door. Then buy the hanger/sender you need (for an 89 Omni) from a parts store and throw away the pump that comes on it. The parts store pumps often are cheap pumps that just dont last or out of the box dont deliver. This includes pumps made or distributed by Carter and Spectra, common replacement pump brands sold over the counter by the national parts store chains. The Walbro is a perfect fit for the 89 style hanger. It's the same hanger found in most 87 & 88 Omnis as well as the 87 Charger.

Here is the link to the external pump on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-86-87-88...19.m1438.l2649


Did you try the pinch off the return line test? If you do this the pump should jump to 100psi really quick and hold it.
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post #20 of 54 Old 11-04-2017, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

I did pinch the line and it reads 100psi... but when I drive the car around the block under boost it drops to 35 psi....the fuel filter looks new...I guess I should replace the filter and test again
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post #21 of 54 Old 11-04-2017, 04:14 AM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

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Originally Posted by ILIKESHELBYS View Post
Then buy the hanger/sender you need (for an 89 Omni) from a parts store and throw away the pump that comes on it.
Walbro / Deatschwerks fit and works fine on my 85 GLH turbo hanger.
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post #22 of 54 Old 11-04-2017, 07:41 AM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

What was your static reading?
What was your rail pressure and vacuum reading at idle?
What was your rail pressure and vacuum reading at no load cruise.
Do any of these readings change after the car has been running for awhile and gets hot?
How long does the system hold pressure after shutting the car off?

https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...-93-turbo.html
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post #23 of 54 Old 11-05-2017, 01:42 AM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

Everything NAJ says then consider removing the intank pump for inspection.

The fuel sender is part of the pump hanger for possible gauge issues.

The pump strainer could be plugged or even the intank lines deteriorating etc.

Thanks
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post #24 of 54 Old 11-08-2017, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

So Good News. I removed the fuel pump and the sock was full of rust. I am planing to purchase a new tank. Can we still purchase the complete fuel float Assembly. Basically everything inside the tank new?
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post #25 of 54 Old 11-08-2017, 07:08 PM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

Most buy parts for 1988-1990 Omni/Horizon as they were all fuel injected.

They only come with a low pressure TBI pump but many replace it with a Turbo pump.

Personally I would keep it original with the low pressure intank and external booster.

Glad you found the issue!!

Thanks
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post #26 of 54 Old 11-08-2017, 09:35 PM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

The tank is available new from RockAuto. SPECTRA PREMIUM/COOLING DEPOT CR3B {#5217793, 576011} Lock Ring Kit Included. Though it is listed as not having a pickup well, the tank that arrived actually does have one which is appropriate for the turbo cars. I paid something like $82 plus $15 shipping. It looks perfect.

I think in an earlier post I mentioned that the factory external and internal pumps are no longer available from the dealer, they are NS1. However there is a factory NOS external pump still on eBay available for $295 or make offer. The internal pump you can go with something like the Walbro 190, which delivers at least 20% more fule than the stocker. Even the Walbro 190 alone will give you more than enough fuel and pressure with or without the external pump.

To get a new hanger and sender, as has already been mentioned, go to Rockauto and pickup an 88+ Omni hanger/sender, throw away the low volume cheap-o pump that comes on it and replace it with the walbro.

The new tank comes with a new lock ring but not the sealing gasket. The new pump from Walbro if you purchase the filter kit from someone like fwdperformance or turbosunleashed does come with the seal. If you replace the tank, then you can also get the still available filler neck gasket, you want to replace this because you will probably ruin the old one trying to get it out. It is Mopar #5217578 You can also get this on RockAuto, they have Mopar genuine, Dorman, and Spectra brands currently available all for $10 or less

On top of the tank is the rollover valve. BE SUPER CAREFUL when you try to remove this little jewel! The hose attached to it has been on there a long time and it doesn't want to let go. If you pull on it, you are going to break off the little plastic nipple from the top of the valve, that will ruin the valve and they are NS1. You can use one from a Jeep that can still be found, it's basically the same. Just don't pull on that hose, use a razor blade to gently slice it off. Also, do not try to remove the valve from the rubber grommet that it is installed in, if you do, you will either ruin the grommet or break the valve. It's actually a LOT easier to remove the grommet and valve together as one piece, separate them once removed, and then install the grommet in the tank then the valve after, being VERY careful to not push hard on the top of the valve and break off the vent line nipple!

I actually find it easiest, since the tank is garbage any way, to first flush the tank with water to get any fuel residue out, then I use a sharp wide chisel to cut the rollover valve out of the tank. I just start a few inches away from the valve, tap the chisel through the tank wall, then tap it all the way over to the valve grommet. Then about 120* from that cut, a make a second, then just bend that ear down into the tank, then the grommet and valve is pretty easy to remove.

You might find it easy to soak the tank strap nuts and the threaded portions a bit with some penetrating oil, you are going to need a 13mm deep socket and about 8-12" of extensions to get those off. You will need to remove the filler neck from the tank, there are a few phillips head screws under the gas door that hold the neck to the body. The tank grommet holds the filler in the tank. Again, some penetrating oil is good to spray the filler tube at the grommet. The end of the tube inside the tank is probably rusty and will be sometimes stubborn to get out of the tank/past the grommet. Some twisting back and forth may coax it out easier.

When you go to install the new sender and pump assembly, the pump and sender sit in a well inside the tank. You have to maneuver the pump (on its side) into the well first, to get the pump over the well wall, then turn it about 90* to be sitting on the floor of the tank. This maneuver is important, and must be done with some care and caution, you don't want to knock off the filter sock or bend the float arm trying to get the pump into the well. There are tangs on the hanger mounting plate, so it's not possible to install the lock ring with the pump in the wrong position.

TIP: Use fuel injection fuel hose clamps, not the worm gear standard hose clamps to keep the lines for weeping/leaking fuel and get the correct sizes!

Note that any fuel hose used inside the tank is not just plain-jane fuel hose. It is SPECIAL hose designed for intank use. The Walbro pump, filter sock and turbo Dodge installation kit will typically come with the special intank connector hose. Don't use butt connectors to splice the fuel pump electrical connector to the fuel hanger wires, solder them and use shrink tube.
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post #27 of 54 Old 11-08-2017, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

Hi Randy,

What are the Pros of keeping the 2 pump system. Both pumps work, I can easily keep the Bosch pump and replace the sock and reinstall
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post #28 of 54 Old 11-09-2017, 01:26 PM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

Dennis,
A noisy external pump (esp. when vehicle gets lower on fuel) is a sure sign that the internal pump is sucking air. Sometimes the hose clamp at the internal pump needs to be tightened more, but most of the time it is leaking between the base of the fuel pump and the plastic end on the outlet side of the pump. I repaired mine with some epoxy 25-30 years ago and it held up perfectly all these years. I replaced the two pump system in my GLHT just this past year.
Back when these cars were new, they didn't have an official recall that I am aware of, but most dealerships would replace the whole assembly with a single internal pump assembly if you complained about the noise enough. They were quite noisy. Also the external pump can be dampened (quieted) by better isolating it from the mounting bracket.
If your fuel gauge isn't working the float level rheostat is probably full of junk or rust from the rusty tank. Replace the fuel filter again after replacing tank.
If you upgrade to a 255 ltr./hr pump, it will not fit without some modifications to the hanger assembly, as the pump is physically longer and larger diameter. I would recommend the Walbro 255 or my favorite the Deatschwerks DW200. I posted a picture of how I make this mod. See how it was extended? Other people attach with cable/zip ties. That doesn't work for me. IMO, cable ties have their place, but not inside fuel tanks holding the fuel pump in place. A 175-195 ltr/hr. pump should almost be a bolt in (without mods) besides possibly the electrical connector.
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post #29 of 54 Old 11-09-2017, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

What are your thoughts on the super60 fuel pump as a option?
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post #30 of 54 Old 11-09-2017, 10:16 PM
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Re: 1986 glhs #163

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennism3 View Post
What are your thoughts on the super60 fuel pump as a option?
A 190 Walbro is more than enough, even for a mild build, the 255 is over kill for a stocker but more than enough for a mild or more, but lots of people choose the 255 just because its the bigger one and cost like $5 more.

Some have reported trouble with fuel pressure being too high because the new high flow pump over runs the return line and cant return fuel fast enough. A larger pump also draws more current, requires more power, possible wiring and fuse issues if it's not solid or you go too big.

There is no advantage to going for a larger fuel pump that your engine doesn't need and that your fuel lines were not designed for.
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