Engine Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!
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post #1 of 41 Old 11-11-2018, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

So today I was about to take the car to it's winter storage location. Upon starting, it was running terribly rough. I could smell gas coming from the exhaust. I was barely able to get it out onto the driveway so I wasn't sending fumes into the house.

I pulled all four plugs. #3 was wet.

(Correct me if I am wrong, I use #1 as the cylinder closest to the timing belt)

All the other plugs looked fine and I could see fuel laying on top of the piston of #3. I placed the plug into the #3 wire, laid it on top of the valve cover, and cranked over the engine. I could see spark.

I installed the plugs again, hooked up all the wires, cranked it over and it was still running terrible. I used a pair of pliers to pull the wire off of #3 while it was running. No Change in the way the engine ran. I pulled #4... still no change (hmmmmmmm???) So I went to #1 and pulled it. Engine Stalled. Put it back on. Restarted the engine. Pulled #2 wire. Stalled. Put it back on.

It seems that I have two dead holes, #3 and #4. And when you try to give it throttle, I am pretty sure I head a "POP" in the air cleaner.

Thoughts?
Thanks
Donnie

1987 SHELBY CHARGER
2.2 T1 all stock
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post #2 of 41 Old 11-11-2018, 07:47 PM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

do a compression test. we know you have fuel and spark so it must be compression. your cam is fine but the valve seats like to pop out of the head. if the valve seat or seats popped out of position your rocker arm will be loose. you could pull the valve cover... have a look. the valve can't close if the seat has dropped.

was the engine above normal operating temp when it was shut off last? a little over temp or a lot over? that would be the root cause for valve seat drop

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post #3 of 41 Old 11-12-2018, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

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Originally Posted by ratrace427 View Post

was the engine above normal operating temp when it was shut off last? a little over temp or a lot over? that would be the root cause for valve seat drop
The last time I ran it, it ran fine. And when I parked it, I allowed it to go through a "heat cycle" where the temp goes up, fan comes on, then drops back to below normal and the fans goes off. I do that to ensure the the turbo is spinning fast when I shut the engine off.

I'll probably pull the valve cover today or tomorrow. Compression test I should be able to get done this afternoon.

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post #4 of 41 Old 11-12-2018, 07:26 AM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

if compression test is good then I wouldn't pull the cover. valve train will be good if compression is happening. if compression is good then it's a fuel issue on #3. the thing about our engines is that the injectors share power. I think #1 and #3 are paired so if 3 is messed up then #1 is also messed up. your extra fuel is coming from somewhere other than a control system fault. stuck injector perhaps or the fuel pressure regulator is feeding fuel into the little vacuum line that connects to it.

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post #5 of 41 Old 11-12-2018, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

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if compression test is good then I wouldn't pull the cover.
The compression test, on a cold engine, showed around 100 psi on all cylinders. It may have been as high as 110, but by the time I cranked the engine, then got back to see the gauge, it was already slowly dropping. I think my gauge might have a small leak. In any case, all the cylinders showed the same amount of compression.

I did pull the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. It was dry.

I didn't pull the valve cover.

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post #6 of 41 Old 11-12-2018, 09:41 AM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

Good Spark, Fuel and Good Compression leaves out Headgasket/Camshaft/Cam Timing.

Injectors fire in batches, 1/2 and 3/4.
Have you checked for fault codes? (Injector control circuit issues)
Is there any corrosion on the injector connectors?
Use a Noid Light to see if #3/4 injectors are staying on all the time (Injector Control Circuit Grounded)

Should be a "loan a tool".
https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ter/948078_0_0
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post #7 of 41 Old 11-12-2018, 10:03 AM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

what NAJ said, forget I that i said 1 and 3 are shared. it's 3 and 4 injectors. reading back you said 3 and 4 are flooded so you are on the right path now.

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post #8 of 41 Old 11-12-2018, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ View Post
Good Spark, Fuel and Good Compression leaves out Headgasket/Camshaft/Cam Timing.

Injectors fire in batches, 1/2 and 3/4.
Have you checked for fault codes? (Injector control circuit issues)
Is there any corrosion on the injector connectors?
Use a Noid Light to see if #3/4 injectors are staying on all the time (Injector Control Circuit Grounded)

Should be a "loan a tool".
https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ter/948078_0_0
I checked for Codes. Only 12, 34, 55. I had to replace the battery, so I understand 12. 34 I have always had since getting the car, which I think is for cruise control, which I don't have. 55 - end codes.

I can't get the connectors off of the injectors. Going to search for a trick to remove them, but feel free to post. I did unhook the 5 way ( I think ) connector above the fuel rail and made sure it was clean, and it was.

I have a NOID set from AM Pro. I just need to get the injector harness off in order to test it.

Thanks
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post #9 of 41 Old 11-13-2018, 08:29 AM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

The original injector connectors are held on by a snap clip that wraps around the connector and locks it in place.
You need to use a small screwdriver or pick to get behind the clip and wiggle it out.
Once the clip is removed you can remove the connector.

Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger-img_new.jpg

Usually the protective boot around the connector tears and allows moisture in which produces a Galvanic corrosion.
If any connectors/terminals are damaged you can get replacement pigtails here...
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...ils-bosch-ev1/

Mine were corroded beyond repair so I bought four and rebuilt the harness.
I used battery terminal cleaner to clean the corrosion from the injectors.
The new pigtails use a spring clip to hold the connector on, much easier to install and remove.

Post back what you find with the connector/terminal condition and if OK what the result was with the noid lights.

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post #10 of 41 Old 11-14-2018, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ View Post

Usually the protective boot around the connector tears and allows moisture in which produces a Galvanic corrosion.


Post back what you find with the connector/terminal condition and if OK what the result was with the noid lights.
I got the injector harness off of #3 and #4. The connectors were perfect. No Corrosion at all.

I plugged in my NOID light to #3, cranked the engine. One Flash ever 1/2 second or so. Repeated in #4, and again, one flash every half second or so. Since I had two NOID's I plugged one into each #3 and #4. When cranking, they flashing in unison.

I haven't pulled #1 or #2 yet. Those little clips are a PITA.

Is that pointing to bad injectors? I am going to test fuel pressure as soon as I get my gauge back from someone who borrowed it.

Thanks
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post #11 of 41 Old 11-14-2018, 06:40 PM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

interesting.. fuel pressure would affect all cylinders though. you could move #3 injector and see if the condition follows but that seems unlikely. i also don't think #3 and #4 would both stick at the same time. (KISS) keep it simple stupid

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post #12 of 41 Old 11-14-2018, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

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Originally Posted by ratrace427 View Post
(KISS) keep it simple stupid
Agreed. What happened between driving a month ago to just last week? I'm hoping there might be a few other tests I can run.

Expecting Freezing Rain and Snow tonight, so it's not going anywhere.

Keep the ideas coming...... however, I have always noticed that my O2 gauge (basic 11 bars) always seemed to read low at WOT. I won't rule out the fuel pump. It is 24 years old.

Thanks
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post #13 of 41 Old 11-15-2018, 05:25 AM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

you said it was firing but maybe the compression is blowing the spark out. Oh wait better yet! How old is that coil? You could bring the coil into the house and let it warm up. The coil and spark timing is a thought
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post #14 of 41 Old 11-15-2018, 09:57 AM
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

Did you not say that the plugs from cylinders 3/4 were wet and fuel fouled?
If so are the plugs from cylinders 1/2 showing normal combustion?
http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/plugchart.pdf

The only way for you to properly test an injector or injector flow is to run an injector balance test.
You need an injector tester and fuel pressure gauge.
I was given an injector tester back in 1989 and have used it numerous times.

https://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-3398.aspx
Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger-otc3398-1-.jpg

Other than that all you can do is swap the injectors and see if the problem moves with them.

As far as ignition, the only thing that would affect only cylinders 3/4 would be the distributor cap, ignition wires or shutter wheel.
You can test the ignition system capability with an adjustable spark tester.
The system needs to be able to produce a minimum of 25 KV at the plug.
Max coil output is approx. 40 KV.

https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ster/10257_0_0
Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger-ignition-adjustable-spark-tester-1-.jpg

After fuel and ignition have been verified OK your next step is engine mechanical...
(The vacuum system on our cars is central so a vacuum leak will not affect only one/two cylinders. If vacuum to the Map is low all four cylinders will be rich)
1)Compression...
Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger-specs-engine-compression.jpg
2)Cylinder Leakdown
https://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-5609.aspx
Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger-otc5609.jpg
3)Cam/Ignition Timing
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...n-84-95-a.html

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post #15 of 41 Old 11-15-2018, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Broken Camshaft ??? 1987 SHELBY Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratrace427 View Post
How old is that coil?
The coil is original to the car. However, I thought I had a spark issue once before and I bought a Spark Gap Tester. I was strong. I can always retest of course.

I can't do much if anything today. School was cancelled for an ice storm. So I'm at home today.

Thanks for the ideas.
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