Side Cam Cover - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!
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post #1 of 21 Old 06-09-2019, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Side Cam Cover

Hi. What would be the reason this small cam cover popped off and how can it be prevented from happening again? Was it from too much crankcase pressure? I have a breather for venting. Was doing some aggressive rpms last night, so I'm sure that had something to do with it. Got oil everywhere.
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post #2 of 21 Old 06-09-2019, 08:47 AM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

Ive had that happen on a non turbo car, it just happens. get a new one clean all the oil off, plop it back in.
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post #3 of 21 Old 06-09-2019, 02:44 PM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

To answer your question, yes crankcase pressure caused this. Hope you had a timing belt window plug, because many times when this happens oil pours down that side of engine into timing window hole and saturates the flywheel and clutch disk. Not great for friction material.
Yeah another approach would be to put a rear cam seal in. Since it doesn't have the surface square inches of the cam plug, it doesn't pop out. Can't use a right side cam seal, it must be a left (slightly larger OD & CCW rotation). Application 85 GLHT/SC or anything 85 and older NA. Mopar # 4105396, National 4040N

I've never had a problem with plugs, but I also don't do the pound em in technique either. I take off valve cover and cam cap to install.

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post #4 of 21 Old 06-09-2019, 04:38 PM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

to much oil can and will blow out the front cam seal too

learned the hard way when I got my first 2.5 ,, (2.2 takes 5 liters 2.5 , 4)
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post #5 of 21 Old 06-10-2019, 08:24 AM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

I have read that it s recommend by some to clean the surfaces really well and use Permatek #1 non hardning sealant or aviation sealant. Oil or non hardened RTV can be too slippery on the surfaces.
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post #6 of 21 Old 06-10-2019, 09:02 AM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

the very best silicone ever came from general electric - high heat automotive silicone

sets fully and it sticks soo good you really could take all the valve cover bolts out and forget them

not an exaggeration , believe me
it was red or black in a toothpaste style tube

used to be packaged on silicone drive in pickering ont (says on tube-still have one left)

it's really worth searching for if it can be had now and so good I can honestly say nothing I EVER put together leaked , ever

as for the cap I'd simply clean the area with some brake cleaner to be sure all the oil is gone then put a SMALL bead of fully setting silicone around the edge of the cap/cover , then tap it gently and straight back into the head

make sure the sealing area around the edge IS ALL THE WAY into the recess and fully seated

I had a friend use the non hardening blue permatex "paste" silicone .. on the end plates/cover of his transmission
which he then filled with 90 weight gear oil.."cause he knows better (lol)

he was back the next day (my garage space).. after an hour long warm up to get the trans to shift .. as what gear oil that haven't dribbled out over night was to thick and cold to even get into gear

sadly a lot of issues are caused with the incorrect use of silicone,
it seals by chemical bond .. NOT COMPRESSION - it's NOT "gasket maker"
so, DO NOT allow silicone to start to set before tightening things down

it will leak and you WILL through any assembly tolerances all to hell

there was someone who posted here a few years ago
- he couldn't find the grooves in his trans primary and secondary shafts for the snap rings that hold the ends of the shafts
- because he had allowed the silicone to firm up a little first- so he couldn't get the parts all the way together
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post #7 of 21 Old 06-10-2019, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Side Cam Cover

Great, thanks for the help everyone!
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post #8 of 21 Old 06-10-2019, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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One more question. It looks like there are two different plugs listed. One is 52.4mm and one is 53.5mm. Mine is the smaller one, part number 4343903. Could it be that it's just a bit small and the reason it came out?
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post #9 of 21 Old 06-11-2019, 10:52 AM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

Two Things...
1)It is common for the Cam Plug to blow out from age alone.
Mine blew out on my way to work about 15 years ago, there was never a leak and there was no warning.
Luckily I was only about 1/2 mile away from work when it happened, I lost over 2 qts of oil in that distance.
Cleaned the engine compartment, removed all grease/dirt from the plug area with Brake Cleaner, installed the new plug and have been good ever since.

2)There are two different Seals listed in the Chrysler Parts Catalog but only one Plug.
If you have seals they are color coded.
Which did your car have?
If it has a Cam Plug then this is what you need.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...lar+plug,10426

And as someone already stated you will need to use a Non-Hardening sealer on the outer edge to help keep the plug in place.

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-no-2-sealant/

OR

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...ealant-liquid/

Side Cam Cover-engine-compartment-left-side-2014.jpg

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post #10 of 21 Old 06-11-2019, 11:12 AM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

likely , the over size seal is for a cam and head with oversize journals

sadly cam markings mean nothing in our cars EXCEPT the marking of an oversized cam / head assembly
those are best avoided for anything other than basic auto repair for someone's daily driver

though the real reason for their existence is the use of more castings ..slightly further out of the prefered tolerances at the time of manufacture
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post #11 of 21 Old 06-11-2019, 11:31 AM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

85 & older used a rear seal. 86+ used a cam plug. You can use either. 85 non air pump engines used a plastic cover so you wouldn't see the camshaft end spinning. Think of it as a dust shield. I mentioned the seal as an alternative option to never have to deal with the plug blowing out again. Has anyone ever had the right side seal blow out like the left side? No, that was my point for an option of never having this happen again. Crankcase pressure caused this. Worn rings, large compression ring gaps, guides, bad PCV valve, tired motor, excessive boost pressures, blown head gasket, all can contribute to forces (pressure) acting on the plug. The plug ages, shrinks a bit, adhesive gets old, and plug pops out when enough pressure is applied to the back side of the plug. That is why NA cars can and do this too. NOT rocket science...

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post #12 of 21 Old 06-11-2019, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Understood. Thanks for all the replies and education. Yes, I have the plug, see pic. Will get new and seal things up.
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-11-2019, 11:54 AM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 L-bodies View Post
1)Has anyone ever had the right side seal blow out like the left side?

2)Crankcase pressure caused this. Worn rings, large compression ring gaps, guides, bad PCV valve, tired motor, excessive boost pressures, blown head gasket, all can contribute to forces (pressure) acting on the plug.

3)The plug ages, shrinks a bit, adhesive gets old, and plug pops out when enough pressure is applied to the back side of the plug. That is why NA cars can and do this too. NOT rocket science...
1)Yes and No...
It did not pop out but started leaking like a sieve, again, without warning.

2)I do not completely agree with this statement.
IMO, you are going to the extreme and planting ideas in the OP's head that the engine may be on its last legs when there is no evidence of that.

3)I do completely agree with this statement because I lived it.

IMO... (Based On The Engine and Systems being Stock
Replace the plug and move on.
If there is no oil in the airbox, no blowby seen with the engine running and the oil cap removed, the plugs are not fouled and the PCV valve moves freely and the line is not collapsed and the grommet is properly secured and not cracked then chances are there are no excessive pressure issues, just age.

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post #14 of 21 Old 06-11-2019, 02:11 PM
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Re: Side Cam Cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ View Post
...2)I do not completely agree with this statement.
IMO, you are going to the extreme and planting ideas in the OP's head that the engine may be on its last legs when there is no evidence of that.

3)I do completely agree with this statement because I lived it.

IMO... (Based On The Engine and Systems being Stock
Replace the plug and move on.
If there is no oil in the airbox, no blowby seen with the engine running and the oil cap removed, the plugs are not fouled and the PCV valve moves freely and the line is not collapsed and the grommet is properly secured and not cracked then chances are there are no excessive pressure issues, just age.
Jan,
Never implied that anything besides crankcase pressure and old cap/adhesive were to blame. Well that and the drivers right foot (lol). Just gave possible reasons for crankcase pressures. No doom or gloom. OP told us in first post that he was running high RPM's and being a turbo that would mean it was seeing boost. OP was looking for reasons why it came out and solutions.

Like I said before, I don't subscribe to the pound em in install that even the factory seems to endorse. I take the valve cover off, cam cap off. clean it, seal it with thin bead of RTV, assemble, torque the cap on, let it dry, and it will never pop off again.

An alternative option that won't fail as previously mentioned is to run a rear cam seal not a rear cam plug. That won't pop out either. Might weep as seal ages, but won't fall out as there isn't enough surface area for crankcase pressures to act on it.

So all you guys that pound them in, you do know that most of your adhesive (RTV or otherwise) is wiped away because of the interference fit of the cam plug? So then when you lose a clutch disk because you weren't running a timing mark cover, or worse yet, lose a engine because you ran it out of oil because of that pesky rear cam plug popped out, know that you could have prevented this by IMO, a better method of installing that rear cam plug. Just sayin...

To me, pounding cam plugs in, is like doing a slip-n-slide head gasket change. Will it work? Yes, at least for the time being. Did the dealer service techs use this approach? Of course, time is money. Would they do that on their own vehicles? Not likely, as they should know there is a better way.

Is there a better way? IMO, yes, but what do I know?

Todd
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post #15 of 21 Old 06-11-2019, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Side Cam Cover

On a side note, does anyone have a spare timing mark cover?
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