250hp TII Build - Help - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!
Engine - General, Exhaust & Induction Topics about the general engine items, exhaust system discussed here & Improving the intake tract - air filter to intake valve.

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post #1 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 01:19 AM Thread Starter
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250hp TII Build - Help

Hello all,
I'm currently in the midst of a restomod/revival of my 87 Daytona Shelby Z. I've got a build thread started here
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...z-project.html
but I felt like I should start a new thread for my engine build, as I'm not sure what direction to take and I feel getting some advice would help me to save money and get what I want.
What I currently have is an '87 TII block bored .020" over, with Wiseco custom forged pistons from Turbos Unleashed, stock TII rods with ARP rod studs, refurbished stock TII crank, all assembled and balanced. I also have the bare "swirl" head off of the 87 block, which appears to be in good condition plus the rest of the parts to build a stock motor.
The p/o told me that the car had 3" exhaust with a 4" cat and muffler delete. I've confirmed the muffler delete, the exhaust appears to be just over 2.5" internal diameter.

I'd like to get 250hp out of this build, as the title stated, if feasibly possible.
I plan to use the car as a grand touring/fun sporty car with an emphasis on handling and driveability as opposed to straight-line power.
What do I need to do to this engine to keep it relatively reliable and get me as close to this power goal as I can?
Thanks in advance,
Isaak
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post #2 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 06:41 AM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

Hi Isaak,

Sweet build, check out these Stage 1, 2, 3 build tips found in the FAQ section, should steer you in the right direction

https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...ting-20-a.html

https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...ng-beyond.html

https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...ng-beyond.html
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post #3 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 08:10 AM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

got a budget? got any idea how long you want it to hold together?
250 on these can be achieved quite a few ways.
either by adding air flow. or adding boost.

A simple super 60 setup would get you well into the goals.
Main problem is you are going to need injectors( fuel support)
and you will need a bigger turbo ( unless you wanna push the stock to a breaking point)
and some form of engine managment. ( ECU or flashing chips)

You can upgrade to a SLIGHTLY larger injector and turbo. andhit your goal. you will need an ECU to do it.

Or you can go balls out larger injectors and much larger turbo. and ECU will still need to be flashed.

so basically making 250+HP and making 350+HP is going to be swapping the same parts.

just a though.

I have acute Taurocoprophobia. Achew!
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post #4 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 08:55 AM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

so, the first link above "Stage 1 .. 20psi " is your recipe to 250-275 hp.
great stuff there,,, Pope knows his stuff..

I consider the 'optional' porting to be part of the 'base' package,
there's free Hp there to be had...

I would add conical springs to the head build, they're a cheap performance upgrade
you''ll want the motor to pull to fuel cut-off (6250 ?) not be experiencing valve float at 5500 ..

try to find a 2.5" SV. Free Hp ..

also, a larger than 'stock TII' IC would be a simple & cheap upgrade..
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post #5 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 01:18 PM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

Do you have any speed shop that can port that cylinder head and add bigger valves?
Can you tune?
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post #6 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellonoma View Post
Hi Isaak,

Sweet build, check out these Stage 1, 2, 3 build tips found in the FAQ section, should steer you in the right direction <img src="https://www.turbododge.com/forums/images/smilies/biggthumpup.gif" border="0" alt="" title="thumbs up" class="inlineimg" />

https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...ting-20-a.html

https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...ng-beyond.html

https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...ng-beyond.html
Thanks for these, I somehow missed them in my looking.
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post #7 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterjr3333 View Post
got a budget? got any idea how long you want it to hold together?
250 on these can be achieved quite a few ways.
either by adding air flow. or adding boost.

A simple super 60 setup would get you well into the goals.
Main problem is you are going to need injectors( fuel support)
and you will need a bigger turbo ( unless you wanna push the stock to a breaking point)
and some form of engine managment. ( ECU or flashing chips)

You can upgrade to a SLIGHTLY larger injector and turbo. andhit your goal. you will need an ECU to do it.

Or you can go balls out larger injectors and much larger turbo. and ECU will still need to be flashed.

so basically making 250+HP and making 350+HP is going to be swapping the same parts.

just a though.
I'd like to get there with as little money as possible, yet still keep the motor fairly reliable. Basically, I'd rather do it once than grenade my motor. Thanks for all the tips, i'll look into them more.
My main source of confusion was with the turbo. I'd read about people making hybrid turbos with upgraded inlets and exhausts. Should I look into this or start shopping for a new turbo?
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post #8 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
Do you have any speed shop that can port that cylinder head and add bigger valves?
Can you tune?
This is my first engine build, so I wouldn't trust myself to do any tuning. Besides, the stock computer seems pretty primitive in that it has no maf sensor.

As for speed shops, I think I'd have to drive to Portland to get any half-decent ones. My machinist does good work but is kind of old and grumpy and very stubborn. not sure if I want him doing porting, especially on my swirl head.
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post #9 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 02:09 PM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

Many car doesn't use MAF that doesn't mean they are primitive. MAP is just a different way to measure and calculate the amount of air entered the engine.


Personally, I'd put everything back to "stock".

First, I'd install wideband and boost gauge.
Then, learn how to use MPtuner to make your own tune for your engine.
Then, socket your ECU, burn a chip or use moates ostrich and make your car run on your calibration file.

I'd do that all before trying to make any additional HP. You can add go fast parts in there now, but without tuning, you'll likely blow up the engine in a very short time.

Tuning software and calibrations files are free. Only cost you in hardware.
MPTuner
Turbonator LM codebase

Once you learn how to tune your own car, then add hardware. Every piece of hardware you install, you'll have to tune again.

The stock turbo can make 250hp when mated with a cylinder head can make that kind of flow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaakfirestar View Post
I'd like to get there with as little money as possible, yet still keep the motor fairly reliable.
Don't we all.

Cheap, fast, reliable, pick any two.
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Last edited by tryingbe; 02-21-2019 at 10:57 AM.
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post #10 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 02:25 PM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
Do you have any speed shop that can port that cylinder head and add bigger valves?
Can you tune?
just going to note. 250HP wont require bigger valves.
many of us have made 250HP on stock valves.


wouldnt a T3/T4 hybrid be easier than a ported big valve head.
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post #11 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 02:53 PM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

Good info on your build
The Dodge Garage
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post #12 of 28 Old 02-20-2019, 03:25 PM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterjr3333 View Post
many of us have made 250HP on stock valves.
Let's see those dyno sheet!


Quote:
Originally Posted by masterjr3333 View Post
wouldnt a T3/T4 hybrid be easier than a ported big valve head.
I would think a ported head is easier, you buy the valves, take the head and the valves to machine shop and have them to the work. When you get back is a bolt on head.

Depends on the what turbo you buy, it might not be a "bolt" on.

I prefer high peak HP number than high peak torque number.
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post #13 of 28 Old 02-21-2019, 07:33 AM
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Re: 250hp TII Build - Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterjr3333 View Post
wouldnt a T3/T4 hybrid be easier than a ported big valve head.
ah yes, the old 'boost vs. flow' argument

there are many paths which may lead to the same destination ...

on is to turn up the boost and dump more fuel.

I prefer to chase away the inefficiencies in the system, which yields 'free' Hp ..

what that (mainly) translates to is a bunch of porting ;)

turbo comp. housing & turbine housing & swingvalve; exh. mani., intake mani; head; water pump housing ! ;)

and selection of parts too of course.. for example
- exhaust: yuo gotta run at least a 2.5" SV, DP, & 2.5" rest of system
- a 2-piece intake mani is better than a 1-piece, but if all you got is a 1-piece then port it and open it to a 52mm TB
- etc.
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post #14 of 28 Old 02-21-2019, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detobias View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterjr3333 View Post
wouldnt a T3/T4 hybrid be easier than a ported big valve head.
ah yes, the old 'boost vs. flow' argument

there are many paths which may lead to the same destination ...

on is to turn up the boost and dump more fuel.

I prefer to chase away the inefficiencies in the system, which yields 'free' Hp ..

what that (mainly) translates to is a bunch of porting &#x1f609;

turbo comp. housing & turbine housing & swingvalve; exh. mani., intake mani; head; water pump housing ! &#x1f609;

and selection of parts too of course.. for example
- exhaust: yuo gotta run at least a 2.5" SV, DP, & 2.5" rest of system
- a 2-piece intake mani is better than a 1-piece, but if all you got is a 1-piece then port it and open it to a 52mm TB
- etc.
So for porting, any flow numbers on the head I should look for? For 250hp do I need to get a g head or is my swirl head sufficient? I have the 2-piece intake, is there someone in the Oregon area who's known to do a good job? I've never ported so I don't wanna ruin it and I don't wanna take it to joe blow and pay someone else to ruin it either.
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post #15 of 28 Old 02-21-2019, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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So what I'm seeing is two different solutions to the problem. To go back to my intended usage of this car,
Which approach would yield more streetable power? Again, this is meant to be a street car first.
And, which approach would make the car more reliable?
I know all about the myth of fast, cheap, and reliable. What I'm not looking for is the solution that'll be reliable at my power goal. What I meant by as cheap as possible is I don't want to just throw money at it for the sake of spending money. I'd like each purchase to have a purpose in furthering me towards 250 reliable hp.
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