stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads - Page 7 - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!

Engine - General, Exhaust & Induction Topics about the general engine items, exhaust system discussed here & Improving the intake tract - air filter to intake valve.

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post #91 of 116 Old 07-19-2017, 12:45 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

Well that sucks. I hoped we could try it out some day with one of my common blocks. I wonder what material they ran. And if the sleeve had clearance at the surface of the deck to try to prevent cracks from expansion.
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post #92 of 116 Old 07-19-2017, 12:52 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

I know way back when, I think it was either LRE or Koffel's place did a big bore engine for a very specific racing application. They completely bored the cylinders out of the block, and had sleeves made, then furnace brazed them in. Not sure how it ever turned out, but I remember reading about it. It was in the famous 1984 Hot Rod book about the 2.2's.
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post #93 of 116 Old 07-19-2017, 01:22 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

any chance there's a link to that - or a title and date to hunt ?
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post #94 of 116 Old 07-19-2017, 02:03 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

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Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
any chance there's a link to that - or a title and date to hunt ?
I've got a copy at home. I've never seen it posted online to read. It was kind of the 2.2 "bible" back in the day. Showed a ton of the developemental stuff Chrysler was doing. Hans Hermann heads, Hilborn injection, the Cosworth headed engine in the M4S, etc.

Lots of stuff LRE & Koffel's Place were doing to make the IMSA engines live. Great resource. It was a special edition magazine/book put out by Hot Rod in 1984. Blue cover with the blue/silver Daytona PPG pace car on the front.

It even had some chassis stuff in it as well. I looked, and can't even find one on ebay for sale right now. Mine is pretty rough. I've thumbed the pages for years. Probably read it 1000 times...
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post #95 of 116 Old 07-19-2017, 11:54 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

Hmmmm. I got some papers and magazines from Steve Wagner's shed. I never throw anything away. They are so gross they'll make you choke, but I would still try to read that if it was in there. I think Steve was driving and racing this stuff since the early 80s. He chose the Neon SRT4 path recently. I don't blame him. Getting old sucks. I think the papers are in a ratty box of rotten empty NOS boxes stuffed in one of my '58 Plymouths.
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post #96 of 116 Old 07-20-2017, 12:31 AM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

The HOTROD 2.2 Engine book

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post #97 of 116 Old 07-20-2017, 04:37 AM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

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The HOTROD 2.2 Engine book

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That's the one!!!
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post #98 of 116 Old 09-10-2017, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

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I highly doubt the Mopar Direct Connection Catalogs and Mopar 2.2 racing books were telling people that the 655 heads had low flow simply to sell them 445 heads.

Both the books and catalogs were aimed at people building stomp down high RPM high horsepower racing engines.

I am quite sure that the engineers at the Chrysler/Shelby High Performance Center used sound scientific methods along with test vehicles and engines to clearly prove and demonstrate that the 445 heads performed better than the 655 heads in applications from the street to the different race tracks.
I have ported about 5 655 heads. The drawings in the MP book of the 655 port isn't even remotely close to what they actually are.

There are reasons the G head works better than a 655 in 1983

1. The 655 intake, long unequal length runners blow. The new G head intake had short equal length runners and plenum. So power to be made off the intake alone.

2. Port volume. Where as yes with big valves and a turbo app this is fine. Engine vac through the turbo intake system doesn't have issues with bottom end and with boost you use the port volume. On the 82 NA, small valves, 7.8:1 compression, small cam, low velocity turd.

3. Short guides, not a high mileage head with a big cam.

So how many here are running this 83 setup? I here everyone bagging on the floor of the port. Yet they say to run the 782 for bottom end power and port velocity. Anyone actually look at the 2 heads? The 655 port floor is a LOT HIGHER than a 782. In fact the 782 has a big dip in the floor at the short turn. When you add big valves you cut farther into the port and actually at this point you can make a real nice short turn in the 655. With stock valves the ramp to the valve is just wrong, the turn happens too soon.

Lastly if you want to feed it you need a real intake. Heavy modded factory intake or custom made like LW or BMF. If you have a BMF going to a 655 is a cake walk....
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post #99 of 116 Old 11-21-2017, 11:45 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

Great information shared. . .
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post #100 of 116 Old 11-22-2017, 07:31 AM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

This is a reman 655 head i just picked up. rebuilt most likely a decade ago.
un touched or modified.




You can see the valves. and the size of the intake port. even the exhaust side looks more open.
the roof looks a little ugly in front of the guide. but i can cut that down and wedge it.
It looks alot like a 351C 2V runner to me. or the aussie 3v/4v runner




I wish my Ported 782 head had such a clear view of the bowl and valve.
The sides are a bit pinched. but the runner looks really nice.





a decent far off shot.. who ever is complaining about these runners really must not have much experience with other engines/styles of heads.. this is really nice.


lastly you can see the cam caps are studs and nuts. and its missing the 4th mounting bolt for the a/c bracket.

Anyone build one of these lately have a good line on Single grove keeper larger exhaust turbo valves?

Looking to make a beehive,PT lifter. Ti retainer, single groove keeper, Larger valve head.
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post #101 of 116 Old 11-22-2017, 02:35 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

The above 2.2 book claims the studs are inferior to the bolts as used on later heads.

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post #102 of 116 Old 11-22-2017, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
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The above 2.2 book claims the studs are inferior to the bolts as used on later heads.

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Are you serious? Oh my God whatever will I do. That's the worst thing I've ever heard in my life. Maybe I'll just throw this cylinder head away now because I booked said studs are not as good as bolts
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post #103 of 116 Old 11-22-2017, 07:36 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

Sometimes I think the people that wrote things in that book were on Crack. You ALWAYS either STUD or HELI-COIL aluminum. Now if the studs are of a shittier metal then maybe, but a good quality stud will always out perform a bolt in aluminum. Maybe they said it to keep people from using the old stuff. ???? They also said you shouldn't go over 14psi. How many of us run more than that all day long?
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post #104 of 116 Old 11-22-2017, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
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Sometimes I think the people that wrote things in that book were on Crack. You ALWAYS either STUD or HELI-COIL aluminum. Now if the studs are of a shittier metal then maybe, but a good quality stud will always out perform a bolt in aluminum. Maybe they said it to keep people from using the old stuff. ???? They also said you shouldn't go over 14psi. How many of us



run more than that all day long?


That was going to be my next point. Where at in an case else in forever and always has a stud been WORSE than a bolt. That literally makes zero sense in reality.

I promise you the only reason they went to bolts is :
#1only one part number not two
#2 easier to assemble. Less processes.
#3 the cam tower bolts are not high torque or stressed area. Stud not required for longevity.


Please for the love of god can this platform stop blindly quoting things from decades ago that have been proven otherwise.
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post #105 of 116 Old 11-23-2017, 01:18 PM
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Re: stock 782 vs the stock 655 8v heads

That's awesome. Just finding ONE 655 is proving difficult for me.

I feel like in the futurism spirit of these cars, to cage yourself within the basic original concepts is irresponsible.
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