super 60 roller? - Page 2 - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!
Engine - Turbo & Block Modifications and upgrades to maximize your Dodges turbo output & Improving strength and durability - pistons to crank.

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post #16 of 21 Old 11-25-2018, 09:48 AM
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Re: super 60 roller?

This thread has actually been an eye opener for me! lol

Looking at my initial remarks, I clearly believed there were no roller cams close to the ol S60 slider.


At first I thought it was me thinking the S60 had more duration then it actually did, but on closer inspection, I think it's because of the 112 LSA. That just says "Hotter cam" to me.


Having had the chance to look at this all over again, these cams are all much closer to each other (and the original S60) than I had realized.
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post #17 of 21 Old 11-25-2018, 04:31 PM
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Re: super 60 roller?

(blink blink) That's why I love to chat and brainstorm about this stuff! I have come up with probably four or five new(new to me anyway) concepts for our platform, but never discussed them or wrote them down, and between the chemicals I have to work with and being generally absent minded, I can't remember one of them. A lot of my being open minded about this stuff stems from reading your story thread that inspires the idea that possibilities are endless.
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post #18 of 21 Old 11-26-2018, 06:39 PM
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Re: super 60 roller?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Cam specs;

S60 slider; 112 LSA, Dur [email protected], .499 valve lift


F4 roller; 115.125 LSA, Dur 236/220.5 @ .050, .478/.468 valve lift

R5 roller; 114.625 LSA, Dur 227/219 @ .050, .490/.501 valve lift

R4+ roller; 112 LSA, Dur 217/216.5 @ .050, .495/ .498.75 valve lift

Note; The F4, R5 and R 4+ specs are courtesy of Todd N.

So on paper, the TU R4+ Looks like a roller replacement for the S60 slider, albeit with slightly less duration. Having said that, I don't Know it has less duration because the S60 slider specs were taken from Mopar catalog which also stated 260/260 duration (@ .006 I'm guessing)

The R4+ @ .006 is 263.6/ 268 so who knows, could be nuts on......
You guys are forgetting one roller camshaft. The old Taft S2+. 114 LSA, .493" lift. That one has 6 more degrees intake duration 223 @.050, and three degrees less duration on the exhaust 213.5 @.050 than the R4+ (roller s-60). Much closer to S-60 specs than the milder S2.

I've put this camshaft in 5) 2.2 engines. Has very good street manners, idles cleanly, and pulls hard to redline. Nice no compromise camshaft.
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post #19 of 21 Old 11-27-2018, 11:36 AM
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Re: super 60 roller?

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: A lot of my being open minded about this stuff stems from reading your story thread that inspires the idea that possibilities are endless.
Really appreciate you saying that, as the only reason I have remained on these forums is to inspire/ pass on info ect.

Funny story;

I look at myself as one of the most open minded people I know.

Many think I Must be completely Closed minded because they Think I'm not listening to their argument.

What they don't seem to get;

1. Real world experience > internet BS


2. If there is any credibility to what they are saying, and they are able to remain engaged in the debate long enough for me to See it, I will be the first to admit I was wrong or out of line debating against it.


I have found very few that remain that open minded....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 L-bodies View Post
You guys are forgetting one roller camshaft. The old Taft S2+. 114 LSA, .493" lift. That one has 6 more degrees intake duration 223 @.050, and three degrees less duration on the exhaust 213.5 @.050 than the R4+ (roller s-60). Much closer to S-60 specs than the milder S2.

I've put this camshaft in 5) 2.2 engines. Has very good street manners, idles cleanly, and pulls hard to redline. Nice no compromise camshaft.

Good info Todd N! Now you know why I was asking you if any real specs existed for the original S60 slider ;)


I'm not aware of what the S2 specs are/were? Only that a friend of mine tested the S2 along with several other cams (though he did S2+ as well?) BtB at track with less than stellar results.


Also, while it's much closer to the S60 profile vs S2, looking at the specs you posted, wouldn't you say the R4+ would still be the Hotter cam and closer to the real S60 based on 112 LSA?


This was a big part of my recent "eyes being opened". Knowing what I know now, and looking back to 92-93? when the S60 was developed, they ground that aggressive of a cam to run in a stock exhaust manifold environment.


So anyone with a sufficient amount of cam knowledge, Must have been able to see how much More cam these mtrs could run with modification, even back then!


Looking at all the roller specs, you can see how developers "chickened out" or maybe just decided they needed to grind a cam that was going to make people happy and no issues, as most are ground 114-116 LSA. Like your S2+ @ 114, making it a milder version, albeit better idle quality and over all drivability.


I'm running one of the biggest "off the shelf" roller cams out there and one of my first comments to FWD Performance was "This is not a race only cam, has decent idle and good street manners," and felt that the "race only" label put on it might be scaring ppl away and hurting sales lol


Now, tighten the LSA on the F4 to 112 and things are going to change dramatically.....

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post #20 of 21 Old 11-27-2018, 08:53 PM
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Re: super 60 roller?

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Originally Posted by INSATANSSEAT View Post
I love that, because I usually take everything the vendors say with a grain of salt! They want to sell sell sell! But at what cost sometimes?

I was messaging Chris on Facebook when he told me about the R4+ and sent me links to Simon's thread on TM. If I was smart, I should have just compared the cam specs myself. I'm never really in a hurry with these builds, though. I do need to pick one up before they're gone. He quoted me $325 and said he only had a few left. This was a year ago.
Not all vendors are sell sell sell!! TU has always given me the straight scoop with accurate info. They talked me out of upgrades that I didn't need and saved me BIG $$$.

From what I heard Simon provided a sample S60 roller cam and Chris had a handful of them reproduced as the R4+. Not sure if he has any left.

Ben
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post #21 of 21 Old 11-29-2018, 02:16 PM
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Re: super 60 roller?

Ben, I wasn't trying to be majorly critical of them. I'm not going to be talking shit about the vendors online. I have to buy stuff from them you know. They kind of have to be sell sell sell if you think about it. Especially when the community says, "YEAH, we'll all buy one of those!" then after investing tens of thousands of dollars in developing something, everyone decides it's too expensive, and just buys a used thing off of a junkyard car that they have to cut up to make work. Then the vendor is standing there with $20,000 worth of paperweights.

-Mark
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