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Engine Management, Fuel, Spark, EGTs, and Air/Fuel Ratios This forum includes general electrical, modification, tuning, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of all components mentioned above including SMEC, SBEC, Logic Modules, aftermarket engine management, etc. Nitrous oxide posts go in here. This is the place

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post #1 of 22 Old 12-14-2017, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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350whp at 6250 rpm

Last year, I dyno tuned my car on E85 at ~21psi, resulted in 290whp
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...de-290whp.html

Since then, Microsquirt, more efficient intercooler, and a different turbo went in.
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...crosquirt.html

This year, I dyno tuned it on E54 at ~24psi, resulted in 350whp

There are two set of dyno pulls on this graph.

Red lines - HP and torque when I started.
Blue lines - HP and torque when I left.

HP vs Torque

HP vs Torque

Red lines - HP and torque when I started.
Blue lines - HP and torque when I left.



I'm more impressed the engine is making 250whp at 12.5 psi.

HP vs AFR


Mods? Lots.
85 glh - Page 2
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Last edited by tryingbe; 12-15-2017 at 10:27 AM.
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post #2 of 22 Old 12-14-2017, 07:57 PM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

what changes made the most difference.....timing or fuel?? I suppose dyno is more needed for timing changes? How did lillknockmeter perform during dyno pulls? nice #s!! land
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post #3 of 22 Old 12-15-2017, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

Quote:
Originally Posted by land View Post
what changes made the most difference.....timing or fuel??
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Would you rephrase and expand it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by land View Post
I suppose dyno is more needed for timing changes?
Yes. Dyno is a great tool, but it is also expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by land View Post
How did lillknockmeter perform during dyno pulls? nice #s!!
Liliknockmeter listens for sound, it always does its job. It is up to the human to interpret those sound.
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post #4 of 22 Old 12-15-2017, 08:56 PM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

sorry questions were not so clear.
when you were on the dyno adjusting the timing map for max hp/torque, did you use the lilknockmeter/detonation sensor to determine max timing, or did you use another method?
Also, from your original tune, compared to the dyno tune, which changes made the most difference in hp/tq, fuel,or ignition timing?
thanks Land
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post #5 of 22 Old 12-15-2017, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

Honestly, I don't remember.

Fuel is adjusted first to the optimal setting which is depended on the fuel type and RPM, then timing is added until there is no more HP gain, then you back off timing until at no HP gain point, then add more boost, then rinse and repeat. Knock sensor isn't really used in this process as I was told by the dyno tuner that if there is knock, you'll see sudden lost of power on the dyno.

My street tune was a very conservative tune.

First dyno out of the box I did was at 9psi then slowly creep to 13psi, I was surprised it made 250whp. The cam timing was 2 degree advanced, I retarded it to 2 degree retard. The peak HP number didn't change, but the retard did slow down the rapid torque drop off after after peak HP and gained 20hp at the 7000rpm point and we stopped there with the cam timing. That is the redline dyno on the pictures.

We then upped the boost 2-3psi at time, did a run, changed fueling. 15psi made around 270whp, then we added more timing, hp went up. 21psi made around 320whp, then we up the boost to 24psi, and changed added timing to get it to 350whp.

We didn't use lilknockmeter at all.
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post #6 of 22 Old 12-16-2017, 08:42 AM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

thanks for reply.....re read some of Hoffman/cramer Hp fuel injection book this am, understanding more, but nice to hear how a real world tune was done with a turbo dodge.
did you use ms tuner studio to make the adjustments to timing and fuel?

did you use your own wideband to monitor a/f ratios or do dyno people have their own a/f and egt instrumentation?
Thanks, land
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post #7 of 22 Old 12-16-2017, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

Tuner Studio is the only software I know that can do adjustment in Microsquirt.

No EGT, used shop's wideband, but I do have my own wideband.

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Last edited by tryingbe; 12-16-2017 at 07:32 PM.
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post #8 of 22 Old 12-16-2017, 10:31 AM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

For the timing wheel you welded to the crank pulley. They have to be steel for the timing sensor to read them right? I love my aluminum UDP and really wouldn't want to lose it. Good Results. I'm not surprised you made 250hp at such a low boost # at all.
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post #9 of 22 Old 12-16-2017, 11:31 AM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

posting pics of adjustable 4.6/5.4 ford crank sensor setup (by BBK)

no it won't fit a 2.2 but it comes close enough someone handy might be able to make a hub that fits it to the center of the pulley by the bolts

I have one for my truck so I tried it against the crank pulley .. bolt spacing is definitely wrong - an entire center for it would have to be made - or something to space it out above the heads of the pulley bolts as they prevent it from sitting flat in the center of the pulley

- something like a thick aluminum washer with a hole for the center bolt and 4 or 5 bolt head reliefs drilled into the backside of it (?)

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post #10 of 22 Old 12-16-2017, 12:58 PM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

Do you think it's the extreme flow that gives that awesome horsepower at such low boost? What did it run at the baseline 9 PSI? This is the concept I am shooting for with the durability build on my GLHS I was telling you about. I am considering using the socketed SMEC and change to the SMEC mod harness on it like you had suggested. I will have to buy another megasquirt for the S/C drag car though. Maybe I would be better off getting a socketed LM and doing the eprom flash stuff? I am trying to keep the GLHS as stock appearing as possible. Looking for a super 60 or TIII or Masi intercooler.
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post #11 of 22 Old 12-17-2017, 11:05 AM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
posting pics of adjustable 4.6/5.4 ford crank sensor setup (by BBK)

no it won't fit a 2.2 but it comes close enough someone handy might be able to make a hub that fits it to the center of the pulley by the bolts

I have one for my truck so I tried it against the crank pulley .. bolt spacing is definitely wrong - an entire center for it would have to be made - or something to space it out above the heads of the pulley bolts as they prevent it from sitting flat in the center of the pulley

- something like a thick aluminum washer with a hole for the center bolt and 4 or 5 bolt head reliefs drilled into the backside of it (?)

Something like that would be easy enough to machine. And nice to see the cutouts don't have to have square corners inside to work.
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-18-2017, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

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Originally Posted by INSATANSSEAT View Post
Do you think it's the extreme flow that gives that awesome horsepower at such low boost?
I'm not sure if this question was directed to me but I'll answer.
Flow is key to make power. The classic 300ft lb and 200hp dyno on 2.2/2.5 turbo dodge is because the stock cylinder heads just don't flow. You need flow to make horse power. Make the cylinder head flow, peak power will come after 6000RPM instead of 4000 RPM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by INSATANSSEAT View Post
What did it run at the baseline 9 PSI?
My setup has a minimal boost of 13psi, as you can tell from the second graph where boost started at 9psi and creep to 13psi at 7400rpm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INSATANSSEAT View Post
This is the concept I am shooting for with the durability build on my GLHS I was telling you about. I am considering using the socketed SMEC and change to the SMEC mod harness on it like you had suggested. I will have to buy another megasquirt for the S/C drag car though. Maybe I would be better off getting a socketed LM and doing the eprom flash stuff? I am trying to keep the GLHS as stock appearing as possible. Looking for a super 60 or TIII or Masi intercooler.
Distributor and HEP robs power due to inaccurate and inconstant spark timing. You can see this happen when you use a timing gun to time the 2.2/2.5 engine.

If the LM works, leave the wiring and upgrade to 87 TII LM would be my suggestion.
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post #13 of 22 Old 12-19-2017, 01:53 PM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

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If the LM works, leave the wiring and upgrade to 87 TII LM would be my suggestion.
I can't believe that even in these they didn't bring the MAP out into the engine compartment. What other differences are there in that upgrade?


I saw your post about the Ed Peters comparison today. The head I have was ported using an Ed Peters head as an example. I have heard bad things about that style of porting though. That it doesn't flow much better. My head has +1s as well.
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post #14 of 22 Old 12-19-2017, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

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What other differences are there in that upgrade?
Simple 1 chip upgrade in the 87 LM vs 2 chips in the 86 LM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INSATANSSEAT View Post
I have heard bad things about that style of porting though. That it doesn't flow much better.
You did see my 350whp dyno, right? Good head that can flow mean peak HP is in the later RPM.
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-19-2017, 02:15 PM
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Re: 350whp at 6250 rpm

Your head porting is done in the Ed Peters style?


So the old EPROMS were two seperate chips?

How much power do you think the gain is, just simply running distributorless ignition versus the HEP setup?
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