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Transmission, Suspension, Brakes, Tires & Wheels This Dodge forum includes modification, tuning, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of manual and automatic transaxles, shifters, torque converters, flexplates, flywheels, ring gears, axles, and differentials including open, friction, and Q. This forum also includes modification, repair, replacement, identification and restoration of the above parts and how to tune them for better traction and handling. Also includes wheel bearings and hubs, wheel studs and nuts, wheel spacers, and other related items. Sponsored by Discount Tire

 
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post #1 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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1998 Dodge Avenger

Hi everyone

I'm swapping in a 6g75 and a543 tranny into my Avenger. I was wondering if you guys could help me out. The transmission is out of a 1994 Dodge Shadow. I have been reading your forums and I was wondering if you could tell me by looking at it what gear-ratio it might have.

I tried to find a diagram that shows the transmission mounts also. I will have to make custom mounts- and being able to see what they looked like from the factory will help. I was also trying to find the wiring diagram for the sensors on the transmission.

I will also have to make a custom bracket to utilize my hydraulic clutch stuff.

I am sure that I will have more questions as this thing moves along and I greatly appreciate your help!

Here are some pic's of the transmission and my swap till now.









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post #2 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 08:22 PM
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

In truth, I would suggest a different transmission. I would look for a Stratus/Sebring from 01 and above that had a 3.0 and had a manual transmission. It would have the right mounting setup for your car and will still bolt right up to the big old 3.8l engine.

Though the build does intrigue me, since I do have a 98 Avenger ES, but nothing like your nice ES (mine is the black that is known to fade badly). But I would love to see how your car turns out.

BTW, how do you plan on running the engine? Going to use the factory wiring or are you going to go aftermarket wiring?

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post #3 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

The a543 bolts right to the 3.8L
The Eclipse 5-speed is too big for my engine bay. It is worse for mounting. I have a megasquirt II and ford EDIS ignition.

You should check out aseclub.net a great avenger/sebring club
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post #4 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 09:47 PM
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

Yep, I am probably going to do the 3.0l swap into mine if I keep it. I am surprised that the Eclipse 5-speed is too big. Especially since the Avenger/Sebring body is pretty close to the Stratus/Sebring body. My fiance owns an 01 Stratus Coupe with the 3.0l in it and auto stick. I am thinking about getting the wiring info to do that swap into my 2.5l car. Really like the auto stick.
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post #5 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 09:52 PM
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

The final drive ratio (ring and pinion) will be right at the bottom of that stamped tag on the bellhousing.

Depending on what year the transmission is, it could have slightly different gear ratios. Use this link and look under a543. http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/transmanual.html

As for the sensors on the transmission, the two-terminal switch on the top is just a normally-open switch that closes when the transmission is in reverse and turns the reverse lights on. You'll have to find a pinout for the TRS on your stock 604 and see which wire goes to the reverse lights, then put ignition-switched power to one terminal and hook the other terminal to that wire to make your reverse lights work.

The only other sensor on the 543 is for the vehicle speed sensor, which on the older cars runs the speedo and the idle control motor. Older 604s use the same sensor in the same spot, but newer ones like your car dont have that sensor, and extrapolate the vehicle speed from the output speed sensor instead. Since your car wont have an output speed sensor anymore, you'll have to either come up with another way to run the speedo (like one of those new handy GPS speedos) or have a custom axle made with the worm gear and bushing surface on it to accomodate the old style sensor and extension housing.

If you DO plan to come up with another way to run the speedo, im almost certain you can just take that part of the transmission off (4 bolts) and replace it with the equivalent flat part from your old 604, and use your existing axles. I think you'd have to redrill some of the 4 holes, and you would want to check your diff clearances after switching it out because those parts have the bearing race for diff bearings on that side and switching it out could change your diff clearances.

I had a v6 avenger i planned to 3.5 swap with a geared down 604, but i lost it to a bad relationship just after sinking money into a bunch of body and paint and some nice wheels.. I do miss it..

Bunch'o K-cars.
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post #6 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 09:53 PM
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

BTW, something you may want to look at for mounting then is use the bracket that is found on the 41te trans for the 6g73 egine that has the bolts on the side (similar to the one on the a543) and then just modify it. I would also be curious as to how the cable shift setup from the Avenger will work with the cable stuff for the a543. I haven't really torn into my Avenger (although it is an auto) to really see how things compare.
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post #7 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983Rampage View Post
Yep, I am probably going to do the 3.0l swap into mine if I keep it. I am surprised that the Eclipse 5-speed is too big. Especially since the Avenger/Sebring body is pretty close to the Stratus/Sebring body. My fiance owns an 01 Stratus Coupe with the 3.0l in it and auto stick. I am thinking about getting the wiring info to do that swap into my 2.5l car. Really like the auto stick.
The 3.0 is really easy. Just a block and heads install.

I'm not a fan of the autostick on the a604. I mean i've played with the shifter but it doesn't downshift very quickly nor upshift. Besides its a 4 speed which isnt very fun. I also have a 2008 Acura TL Type S- and that has paddle shifters. That car is very fun to drive with them- very responsive.

lol




Heres the swap info:

So you’ve decided to swap out your tired old 2.5L 6G73 engine in your Avenger or Sebring coupe…. Great! We get countless requests for lists of what needs to be taken off or swapped over in order to complete the swap and a few years ago I wrote up a quick list explaining what needed to be done. I’ll go through it again and we’ll update a few things in the process. I won’t go through step by step on what you need to do, just run by everything that needs to be taken out, or modified and what to look out for. No detailed pictures unless I feel it is needed for a part that needs to be modified a certain way…….. so please do not ask.
Finding the engine I can’t really help with, but choosing one is just as hard. It will be very hard to resist grabbing that low buck engine you see 1-400 dollars below all the others and still only has 4 thousand miles on it. Usually something that good looking is generally a pig wearing pretty lipstick and something isn’t right with it. Look at what the market average is for that particular area or part, then sit and decide if you can go average or higher. Unless they can guarantee that engine is pristine……… leave the cheap one behind. Make sure the car it came from isn’t flood damaged, fire damaged, hit in the front or front sides, or a nasty rollover. Getting those generally leads to big problems having to weld up things on the block. Ask questions when you call them. If they seem annoyed to talk to you and answer your questions…….. kindly hang up and move on to another place.

Now; you’ve got your 3.0L engine sitting in front of you, and it looks like a lot of work to get that engine into your car. In reality it isn’t if you have everything planned out ahead of time. With over 25+ swaps under our belts here at Exile Racing, we’ve pretty much run into everything you at home or school can possibly run into when it comes to parts needed. Unless you bought some ungodly ugly, worn down, hard hit motor that needs a new front cylinder head or crankshaft that is. (We’ve been there as well)

If you copy this list, please at least be man enough to give credit where credit is due. We’ve helped pioneer this conversion along with others and frankly I’m sick of seeing lists I’ve created on other people’s sites without any credit.


TOOLS NEEDED BEFORE YOU GET STARTED
• Metric Socket Set – (1/2 in, 3/8in, 1/4in) If possible at least mid and deep sockets
• ½ breaker bar or a cheater pipe to break stubborn bolts free (AIR TOOLS IF YOU HAVE THEM)
• Open end/box end metric wrench set going from at least 10mm to 18mm
• Screw driver set
• Pry bar or large flathead screw driver
• Engine lift and chain
• Engine stand (or 2, makes it easier to swap parts from one engine to the other this way)
• Jack and jack stands
• Large moving blanket or cardboard sheet to place the hood on after you remove it.
• Gasket scraper (putty knife)
• Timing Tensioner tool (available for loan at ExileRacing.com or purchase at 3SXPerformance.com)
• Droplight/flashlights
• Grinder
• Hacksaw/sawsall (recommended)


MATERIALS NEEDED
• Blue Loctite
• Torque Converter Bolts (available at the dealer, or local trans shop)
• Black RTV
• Oil filter neck gasket (available at the dealer, or you can get gasket material and cut your own)
• Oil pickup tube gasket (dealer, or cut your own)
• Engine Degreaser
• Towels
• Oil drain pans (get as many as you can or dump often)
• Oil filter (use OEM Avenger 2.5L Unit)
• Oil (Use whichever you like, Mobil 1 etc)
• Couple of quarts of trans fluid for leakage (ATF+3 ONLY)
• Spark Plugs (We use NGK Copper, Bosch Copper also work great)
• PB Blaster or any rust penetrating oil
• MAP, Propane, or Oxy/Ac Torch just in case the exhaust is crusty
• Engine Coolant
• Exhaust Frontpipe Gaskets (2) dealer



3.0l 6G72 ENGINE PARTS THAT NEED TO BE REMOVED
• Pull the drain plug from the oil pan (you don’t want to have to pull off a full pan if they forgot to drain it before shipping)
• Upper Intake Manifold
• Fuel rail and injectors
• Lower intake manifold
• Rear plenum brackets
• Fuel rail and injectors
• Front AC Bracket (black painted cast iron)
• Crankshaft pulley
• Timing cover
• You may need to take the front cam gear off to get at the back steel timing cover. This also makes installing the 2.5 cover easier as well. You have to redo the timing anyways, so take it off and save the curse words for something else. This generally means you’ll need an air wrench, so if you don’t get creative and leave the gear on. Unless you have a way of locking the gear from spinning without marring them up (OEM tool, it just isn’t worth it)
• Timing idler and bracket
• Crank position sensor (right by the lower timing gear, held in with 2 10mm bolts)
• Alternator bracket (if they sent it with it)
• Power Steering Bracket (again if they sent it)
• Exhaust manifolds
• Oil filter neck (3 bolts, 12mm – holds oil filter and temp sensor)
• Oil pan (this is a pain. You need the gasket scraper or putty knife and have to pry it off by wedging it in and goig along the pan on both sides until you feel it pulling apart)
• Oil pickup tube
• Coolant thermostat housing (crossover)
• Distributor
• Wrap up the cord for the knock sensor between the heads and tuck in away or remove the sensor completely.



2.5L 6G73 PARTS THAT NEED TO BE MODIFIED TO FIT THE 3.0L 6G72
• Timing covers – Here you’ll have to modify the lower cover at the lower section at the front of the block. Just trim off enough until it sits flush on the 3.0L engine, then set it aside until you get the timing done (Picture to come)
• Lower Alternator Bracket – Now In order to install this, you’ll notice the 6G72 oil pump has a mounting boss right where it needs to go on the back part of the motor. Two options here, hack it off the pump completely with a saw, or grind it until the alternator bracket fits. If you hack it, just cut the cylinder threaded portion off. No need to go any further in as the bracket clears with it gone. (Picture to come)
• Front bracket for the engine to trans (the one behind the starter) This you’ll see the upper 2 mounting holes for the engine, then a raised lip around the edge. You’ll need to take this edge off all the way around the top and about mid way to the bend. (Picture to come)


2.5L PARTS THAT NEED TO BE TRANSFERRED OVER TO THE 3.0L 6G72
• Lower intake manifold
• Rear plenum brackets
• Upper Alternator Bracket
• Front cam gear to remove the steel timing cover
• Timing idler and spacer behind it
• Timing belt, and set the timing with new tensioner and tool. (TRIPLE CHECK TIMING)
• Timing covers from 2.5
• Oil Pickup tube from 2.5
• Oil Pan from 2.5
• Oil filter neck from 2.5, Install on 3.0 using either oem gasket or custom cut. DO NOT USE RTV. THIS IS AN AREA OF HIGH PRESSURE AND RTV WILL NOT HOLD
• Front and rear exhaust manifolds and gaskets from 2.5
• Oil Dipstick tube from 2.5
• Thermostat housing from 2.5
• Distributor from 2.5
• Plugs and wires
• Passenger side motor mount from 2.5
• AC Compressor bracket from 2.5
• Driveplate and spacer from 2.5


SANDMAN’S TIPS AND THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR
• Take your time and plan ahead. Plan for all scenarios. Including not finishing the car in a weekend and have a backup ride to work if need be. Make sure you have help, doing it solo is doable…….. but it will go a lot smoother if you have a helping hand or two.
• Put a drain pan under the passenger side axle on the trans and make sure it covers that side, the back differential cover and a good side area around it. When you remove the heater hose lines, pull them out and point them down at the pan if possible to minimize mess. Do all of this after you have finished all you can under the car so you aren’t laying in smelly coolant all night. We at ERT don’t even use a typical drain pan for oil, bt use the under the bed storage bins you can get a Sears. Wide area, and holds a full trans, oil, and coolant in one shot.
• The 3.0L may start off rough or die on first attempts, this is the ECU learning so no need to worry. It will smooth out soon, just let it warm up a bit.
• Leave the radiator cap off while you warm it for a bit, this will make sure you don’t vapor lock the engine and overheat. It will push coolant out of the toop, so just put a towel or 2 around it. DON’T COVER IT WITH A TOWEL OR BLOCK IT, THIS WILL PRESSURIZE THE SYSTEM AND WHEN YOU RELEASE IT WILL BLOW OUT. If bubbles are popping up fast as the engine runs, you are safe to pop the cap on.
• The new engine may tick a bit until you get some load on the engine and the lifters have time to pump up. Unless it is REALLY loud and the car is running rough, you should be fine. If the car sounds like it is causing damage… turn it off and check the oil level, timing etc.
• Keep everything clean, just makes everything easier. Clean any gaskets being reused (Thermostat housing, exhaust manifold) Dirt will cause leaks.
• You’re going to notice differences in the front and rear valve covers. They don’t have the same mounting bosses we do on the 2.5. It is OK to either swap the hard lines for the vacuum with silicone, or just lay them there out of the way under the manifold in the spots it would have mounted in.
• You may notice a bit higher oil pressure than on the 2.5…….. don’t worry. It’s normal.
• You can use stock injectors on the 2.5, you just won’t have any top end power that you would have unless you use 210cc injectors. In order to get back low end power after swapping the injectors out, you’ll need to tune the bottom end of the RPM scale with a controller such as the SAFC or Split Second PSC1.
• DO NOT USE THE 3.0 210CC injectors that come on the motor you order. You’ll be sorry when you try to upgrade them later and the injector choices will have you cutting and splicing the harness back to what you had before. You must use High Impedance injectors or a resistor pack for lows if you feel you must have them for some reason.
• YES, HEADERS FROM THE 2.5 WORK ON THE 3.0L

The 3.0 we use comes from these cars.
2000+ Eclipse
2001+ Sebring
2001+ Stratus
1999+ Galant
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post #8 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 09:58 PM
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

Yep, have all that good info, but thanks for the info. Good to see it over here now. LOL.
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post #9 of 9 Old 05-06-2010, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 1998 Dodge Avenger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
The final drive ratio (ring and pinion) will be right at the bottom of that stamped tag on the bellhousing.


As for the sensors on the transmission, the two-terminal switch on the top is just a normally-open switch that closes when the transmission is in reverse and turns the reverse lights on. You'll have to find a pinout for the TRS on your stock 604 and see which wire goes to the reverse lights, then put ignition-switched power to one terminal and hook the other terminal to that wire to make your reverse lights work.

The only other sensor on the 543 is for the vehicle speed sensor, which on the older cars runs the speedo and the idle control motor. Older 604s use the same sensor in the same spot, but newer ones like your car dont have that sensor, and extrapolate the vehicle speed from the output speed sensor instead. Since your car wont have an output speed sensor anymore, you'll have to either come up with another way to run the speedo (like one of those new handy GPS speedos) or have a custom axle made with the worm gear and bushing surface on it to accomodate the old style sensor and extension housing.

If you DO plan to come up with another way to run the speedo, im almost certain you can just take that part of the transmission off (4 bolts) and replace it with the equivalent flat part from your old 604, and use your existing axles. I think you'd have to redrill some of the 4 holes, and you would want to check your diff clearances after switching it out because those parts have the bearing race for diff bearings on that side and switching it out could change your diff clearances.

I had a v6 avenger i planned to 3.5 swap with a geared down 604, but i lost it to a bad relationship just after sinking money into a bunch of body and paint and some nice wheels.. I do miss it..
The splines on the a543 are different from the axles I have. I have to cut apart and weld together daytona (tranny side) and avenger (hub side) axles.
One way to get the speed correct from what I have been told from a member who did this swap but on a 2.5 (stock avenger) is that he wired the speed sensor to the factory ecu input- but the car read double the speed- he then got a circuit that divided the pulse by 2 and walla! correct speed reading!
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