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post #1 of 14 Old 01-19-2018, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

I have a '91 Daytona ES, and the thing has several issues with the electronics.
1. The back up lights do not light. The bulbs are brand new, the sockets show 12V DC, and they won't light.
2. The dash bezel has several buttons that don't work. The fog lights, rear window wiper, rear window washer buttons, and the wiper delay slider don't work. Every connection has been resoldered at least once, but no function.
3. The headlights grind when going down. They pop up smoothly with a small click when they hit the upright position, but when they go down, the motors keep spinning and making a very loud grind for a second or two.
I have had the car for 5 months, and these issues have been there for a long time. The car has been in the family since it was made, so I can answer many questions about its history.
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-19-2018, 01:54 PM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

1. Check grounds, socket condition, and the reverse switch on the transmission. Is it an auto or 5-speed? Is it V6 or 4-cylinder? If V6/auto, is it an A604? If so, I want to say there's also a relay next to the TCM for the reverse lights. I'd have to double check that, though.

2. This kind of sounds like either the pins on the bezel aren't making contact, or the BCM might have something going on with it. That's in the passenger's side kick panel. Make sure it doesn't have corrosion, etc.

3. Dunno, never heard this one before. If it were mine I would take one of the motors off, take it apart and see if there's a clutch in it that's messed up.
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-19-2018, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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My car has the V6 and the a543 5 speed manual. And I'm new to electronics as a whole (started learning it in school this week) and have no clue what a TCM or BCM is, it what it would look like. And for the ground wires, where would the ground points be? I haven't found any.
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post #4 of 14 Old 01-20-2018, 08:29 AM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

Welcome To TD!!!

1)Backup Lights...
Locate the backup lamp switch on the top of the transaxle and unplug the connector.
Use a jumper wire across the connector terminals and turn the key to the "on" position.
If the backup lamps are now illuminated replace the backup lamp switch.
Since you stated you have 12 volts at the sockets you may have a ground issue at the sockets.
Wiggling the wires with the reverse lights on (Key On/Engine Off in Reverse) may show a loose/faulty terminal in the socket itself.
If not check continuity to ground.

2)Wipers...
The switches in the switch pod (headlamp/turn signal/wipers) are a common failure issue usually due to issues on the switch circuit board.
If you turn the wipers on to a position that is inoperative and push on the switch pod by the switch and they work your issue is with the switch circuit board or connection issue.

If the front wipers operate properly on low and high but the intermittent and park functions do not function properly you have a switch, switch connection issue or a faulty BCM (Body Control Module).
Unfortunately diagnostics for the intermittent wiper function are done with a scan tool accessing the BCM.(Chrysler DRB2, Snap On MT2500 or equivalent)
There is however a continuity test for the switch to determine if the switch is the issue.
It will be posted below.

The rear wipers use a separate rear wiper switch.
I do not have a rear wiper so I am not familiar with how the system actually operates.
If you cannot find the issue I will look into it for you.

3)The headlamp issue definitely sounds mechanical.
You will need to physically inspect the doors and linkage for problems.
Headlamp door info will be posted below.

I will send you wiring for the car through PM.

BTW, if you are not sure, the Daytona is an "AG" body.

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-img_0003_new.jpg

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-wiper-90-93-ag-aj-1.jpg

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-wiper-90-93-ag-aj.jpg

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-img_new.jpg

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-img_0001_new.jpg

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-img_0002_new.jpg

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post #5 of 14 Old 01-23-2018, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

NAJ, thanks for the wiring diagrams. I'll have to go over them with my dad when he has some free time to work on the car with me. A quick update on the issues:

1. My clutch is going to be replaced soon, and when that is being done, I will check if the backup switch is bad. I want to deal with everything that has to do with the transmission at one time, because it's a pain with the lack of space in the engine bay. In the mean time, I will check the grounds. But I can't find a single one. Where are they located?

2. To help with the dash issue, I gave my neighbor (who is an electrical engineer) my original dash bezel as well as a Lebaron dash to see what is wrong. When I get them back, I hopefully will have some answers on the situation. Alternatively, if anybody has a spare WORKING dash bezel that they want to sell to me, I'd be happy to take a look.

3. I found out from some of my granddad's old receipts that the headlight motors were swapped with another set of motors from a 1985 Dodge something or other. Don't know when they were swapped, but that means that the original motors died. And judging from what I've seen on this forum so far, that's no rare thing. If the motors make a difference in the adjustment procedure, let me know.
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-24-2018, 06:23 AM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

The ground for the backup lamps is the Black wire in the socket.
The same ground is used by all rear lamps.
Usually the issue is in the socket itself.
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post #7 of 14 Old 08-20-2019, 07:31 PM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

Just ran into the same issue with my new Daytona. The issue was the switch underneath the switch pod on the dash. All wires, relays and fuses have continuity, but when we took the switch pod off the dash we realized that the switch had been destroyed(most likely by a fault in installation. It is an ugly mess of wiring in these cars and its kinda scattered all over the place. We first examined the wires to see if one was cut or disconnected. Then we tested the switch behind the drivers seat mounting points(had 0V DC) we worked our way to the relay(had continuity). Then the most unpleasant part, we dismounted the switch pod to find that the switch had gone bad. We were able to get all lights and motors to work, but it is only a temporary fix for right now. I am looking for a dash conversion that will fit in a 1990 Daytona ES. It seems impossible to find the switches anywhere, but for the meantime I have made a temporary solution of a soft mounted switch pod. If anyone has any intel on a dash conversion, I'm all ears.
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post #8 of 14 Old 08-21-2019, 10:11 AM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

Welcome To TD and Congrats on your New Daytona.

The headlamp/TS/wiper switches for 90-93 Daytona and 90- 95 Lebaron are a common failure item and you are correct, they are NS1(no longer available/discontinued) and were never available from the aftermarket.

I have had issues with these switches on and off for almost as long as I have owned my Daytona and I bought her new in 12/89.

The issue with the switches is created from constant expansion/contraction of the circuit board on the switches, the T/S switch operates through the headlamp switch so a T/S issue may be headlamp switch related.

I have a couple of switches that do not work but if I need them for my car I will attempt to repair them, it is what you have to do if you own a 90-93 Daytona.
I was able to diagnose and repair a problem with my headlamp switch ground circuit.

IMO, rather than destroy/bastardize your interior and ruin the look of the car and the way it was designed to function either...
Open a thread in the "Parts Wanted" section for a complete switch pod/switches from someone parting a car or I can help you diagnose and correct your current issue.
(The only difference between a Daytona and LeBaron headlamp switch is LeBaron never came with Fog Lamps, the T/S switches are the same.)

So...
Exactly what is the issue with your switches/wiring?
The switch pod breaking/cracking from age is common, the wiring should not be a mess/destroyed unless someone was there before you.
Pics may help.

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-electrical-headlmap-switch-circuitry.jpg

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-electrical-headlamp-switch-repaired-ground-circuit.jpg

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post #9 of 14 Old 08-21-2019, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

Wait, so the whole issue is just the circuit board(s) warping? Sounds like there has to be an annoyingly easy fix. Is it possible to cut out a custom board from a less temperature-sensitive material and replicate the circuits or just reinforce the existing one(s)? Also, where can I find a list of ground locations? They give vague hints like "right fender" or "engine ground" in the wiring diagrams manual, and I really want to avoid searching for hours.

By the way, I fixed my reverse lights. The switch for them the top of the transmission went bad.
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post #10 of 14 Old 08-21-2019, 11:10 AM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ View Post
Welcome To TD and Congrats on your New Daytona.

The headlamp/TS/wiper switches for 90-93 Daytona and 90- 95 Lebaron are a common failure item and you are correct, they are NS1(no longer available/discontinued) and were never available from the aftermarket.

I have had issues with these switches on and off for almost as long as I have owned my Daytona and I bought her new in 12/89.

The issue with the switches is created from constant expansion/contraction of the circuit board on the switches, the T/S switch operates through the headlamp switch so a T/S issue may be headlamp switch related.

I have a couple of switches that do not work but if I need them for my car I will attempt to repair them, it is what you have to do if you own a 90-93 Daytona.
I was able to diagnose and repair a problem with my headlamp switch ground circuit.

IMO, rather than destroy/bastardize your interior and ruin the look of the car and the way it was designed to function either...
Open a thread in the "Parts Wanted" section for a complete switch pod/switches from someone parting a car or I can help you diagnose and correct your current issue.
(The only difference between a Daytona and LeBaron headlamp switch is LeBaron never came with Fog Lamps, the T/S switches are the same.)

So...
Exactly what is the issue with your switches/wiring?
The switch pod breaking/cracking from age is common, the wiring should not be a mess/destroyed unless someone was there before you.
Pics may help.

Attachment 255139

Attachment 255141
I just found one in Ontario that the seller is going to test and send me a message if it works. I'm hoping that it does because I really can't go anywhere because the switches are all messed up so I have no lights.
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-21-2019, 11:16 AM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

Making new PCB's is way beyond my pay grade, all I can do is try to repair what Chrysler gave me to work with.

The constant expansion/contraction causes the solder joints to crack or the board to crack.

Exactly what are you testing right now that you need ground locations?
Do you have the FSM's?
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post #12 of 14 Old 08-21-2019, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

I was just asking if making a new circuit board is possible in general, not specifically asking if you would. I am just trying to find all the grounds to make sure none are corroded or loose, because there are loads of noncritical issues that I want to try to fix. To name a few, the horns don't work (good relay and fuse, brand new horns), the radio plays fine but the cassettes play only out of the right speakers, the left turn signal freaks out sometimes and goes 3 times faster, and the radiator fan doesn't start unless the AC is on (good fuse, relay, and coolant temp sensor). And yes, I own all 3 service manuals.
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-22-2019, 10:48 AM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

The ground circuit location is shown in the Wiring Diagrams Manual.
Find the circuit # you are looking for and then search ground locations by circuit #.

Each one of those issues you mentioned above are easy enough to test.
(Other than the radio which sounds like an issue with the radio itself if all speakers work when the radio is on)

1)Turn Signal flashing quickly on one side only is usually caused by a bulb being out, the wrong bulb, a faulty connection between the bulb and socket or socket wiring.
The circuit is designed that way to alert you when a bulb is not lit.
Find the bulb that is not lit properly and determine why.
If you cannot find a problem with any bulbs/sockets (perform a wiggle test to check for loose wires in the socket) then I would have to assume the issue is with the T/S switch/switch connector/headlamp switch.

2)Cooling Fan will not cycle on without the A/C being on.
If the fan cycles on with the A/C then we know the Cooling Fan Relay, Fan Motor and all Wiring are OK.
Sounds like you are not reaching proper operating temp which is probably being caused by the wrong temp thermostat, a stuck open thermostat or a CTS that is not reading temp correctly.
The cooling fan cycles on at 210 degrees F.
Backprobe the CTS connector with a digital voltmeter and start the car.
Watch the voltage, the voltage corresponds to a temperature.
Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-backprobing-cts.jpg

Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-cts-voltage-chart-2.jpg

If you are not reaching proper operating temp, replace the thermostat.
When replacing the T-Stat be sure to drain and refill the cooling system properly by removing the bleed plug in the head behind the thermostat (see your FSM for the proper procedure) so you do not trap air in the system.
Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-vxf7k7_th.jpg

Also, the thermostat for our cars does not have a "bleed" valve.
You can make one which will help alleviate air and lessen thermal shock on the Head/Headgasket when the thermostat opens.
Drill a 1/8" hole in the T-Stat flange and place the hole at the 12 o'clock position when installing.
Courtesy Of Donavans Dodge Garage
Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-thermostat-bleed-hole.jpg

3)The horns ground through the body when they are mounted correctly.
The horn buttons control the ground side of the horn relay through the clockspring.
Do you have continuity from the horns/horn mounting to the body?
Do you have power at the horns when you depress the horn buttons.
If you do not have power at the horns then you need to check the Horn Relay Circuit.
Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues-dqnqlj.jpg

Any problems/questions/concerns Please feel free to ask.

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post #14 of 14 Old 08-22-2019, 11:42 AM
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Re: Dash, reverse light, and headlight issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ View Post

The constant expansion/contraction causes the solder joints to crack or the board to crack.
Off track slightly, but I have added small auxiliary cooling fans to all the electronics in my Daytona (SMEC, Digital dash, 12 button navigator and 24 function system check) to help combat this during hot summer drives. Tapped a 12VDC supply off each board and integrated the fan into the base of each. And when the car is parked for the winter I remove all circuitry from the car and store it in my basement. This process has treated me well the past 10 years.
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