T1 piston set ! - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!

Parts Wanted Post the turbo dodge parts you are looking for here. TD-specific items only.

 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
TD New Guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
 
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
T1 piston set !

Hello peeps, I own a 1985 Omni GLH turbo 1 block and rods but not LW, i had some detonation and cracked number 1 piston, for now i want to just do a quick cheap rebuild so i can drive the car this summer and next winter build up a common block :) would someone here have any pistons for sale and are the T1 pistons same specs as T2? dish etc... i alreayd have a tune and want everything to work fine when its back together!
omni85 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 04:58 PM
Level 1 Supporter
 
83scamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
 
My Ride: 83 Scamp GT
Engine: 2.2
Induct: N/A
1/4: 17.200

Posts: 2,479
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

The simple answer is no.

What you asked is a bit of a loaded question. Let me explain why...

Your GLH is an 85, which means it will have the 445, or 287 bathtub head on it. There was only one turbo piston offered on that engine.

By the time the T2 came around, Chrysler had switched to the 782 swirl head, and those take a different piston. Also, the T1's are all pressed pin rods(until 89 when the T1 went to a 2.5), while the T2 are floating pin, so they use different pistons as well. But they are very different than your pistons. The T1 & T2 swirl head pistons look very similar, and the piston crown is about the same, but they are different due to the different piston pin arrangement.

Confused yet???

So basically, you need a set of early bathtub head turbo pistons...

But also be aware that if your long term goal is to build a common block motor, you will need a different tune, because the spark map for the swirl head is completely different than the bathtub head.

83 Scamp GT COTM APRIL '14
89 Daytona ES turbo, Daily driver
83scamp is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
TD New Guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
 
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

ok... i got this car from a guy who messed around with it quite a bit lol maybe too much, i just drove it basically and then this happend. he had put T2 pistons onto the T1 rods lol and it was running well until i got some detonation, what could i do just to get it back on the road? and how rare are the real pistons i need? will my compression change ? im wondering if the actual piston size is different and dish size
omni85 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 05:58 PM
Level 1 Supporter
 
83scamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
 
My Ride: 83 Scamp GT
Engine: 2.2
Induct: N/A
1/4: 17.200

Posts: 2,479
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

Quote:
Originally Posted by omni85 View Post
ok... i got this car from a guy who messed around with it quite a bit lol maybe too much, i just drove it basically and then this happend. he had put T2 pistons onto the T1 rods lol and it was running well until i got some detonation, what could i do just to get it back on the road? and how rare are the real pistons i need? will my compression change ? im wondering if the actual piston size is different and dish size
Depends on what the guy did. Did he go oversize? The pistons should be marked if he did. Stock bores are the same for all 2.2/2.5 engines, 3.445".

Yes, there is a considerable difference in the piston styles. The bathtub head uses a small, deep dish. While the swirl head uses a large, much shallower dish. I've heard of guys mixing they types, but it's generally not recommended.

Since you already had detonation problems, whatever you do, DO NOT be tempted to buy cheap, aftermarket hypereutectic cast pistons. They will grenade at the slightest detonation, and you will be worse off then you are now.

83 Scamp GT COTM APRIL '14
89 Daytona ES turbo, Daily driver
83scamp is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
TD New Guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
 
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

Yes the block is still Standard size, so 2.5 pistons are the same as 2.2? i just want to run it the way it was but im doing things to take care of my detonation since the car is tuned, ported, and the stock mitsu was at full capacity loll ill just dial it down a notch and add some octane booster for safety lol, should be ok until i get MY build going not this guys


Is old OEM a better choice than the cheap Hypereutectic ones?
omni85 is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 09:03 PM
Naturally Aspirated
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
My Ride: CSX/CS/GLHS
Engine: 2.2
Induct: Turbo
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 7,667
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
     
Re: T1 piston set !

If you want to go with 2.5 pistons you will also have to run a 2.5 crank. There are practically no remaining NOS pistons available. They are unobtanium for the most part. A good used set would be much easier, even still not a walk in the park.

Musical parts in a turbo engine is the perfect recipe for detonation, especially w/o a specific tune setup for exactly what you have.

I would advise you to attempt to just stick with the stock configuration, look for a set of good used and pray that the cylinder bores will take a de-glaze and you can get a set of new rings to seat well. Otherwise, bite it and get the forged pistons, do the block at a machine shop and do it right. Unless you have some rather lofty goals there is not even a genuine need for a common block. There are many many many of the non-common block engines making 250-300HP on 15-20lbs of boost and they are not blowing up left and right.

Just my $.02, not to call you out or anything like that. I've spent a ton of money learning that all that jazz isnt really necessary unless you want to break and/or exceed 300 and then all the fun and cash really starts to flow because at that power level things like clutches, tranny, brakes, and suspension begin to also become a factor.
4Daytonas likes this.
ILIKESHELBYS is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 09:22 PM
Level 1 Supporter
 
83scamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
 
My Ride: 83 Scamp GT
Engine: 2.2
Induct: N/A
1/4: 17.200

Posts: 2,479
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

Quote:
Originally Posted by omni85 View Post
Yes the block is still Standard size, so 2.5 pistons are the same as 2.2? i just want to run it the way it was but im doing things to take care of my detonation since the car is tuned, ported, and the stock mitsu was at full capacity loll ill just dial it down a notch and add some octane booster for safety lol, should be ok until i get MY build going not this guys


Is old OEM a better choice than the cheap Hypereutectic ones?
I should have clarified a little more. 2.5 pistons are not the same as 2.2, but they do share a common bore size. The 2.5 pistons are considerably shorter to make up for the longer stroke. The 2.5 T1 pistons, do have full floating pins like the T2 pistons. N/A motors & 2.2 T1 engines have pressed in pins. Which truthfully doesn't make a bit of difference as far as making horsepower. Floating pins do make the engines easier to disassemble. It was used as an advertising gimmick by Chrysler...

I would agree with Ilikeshelbys though, a good set of used stockers will be much better than new hypers...

83 Scamp GT COTM APRIL '14
89 Daytona ES turbo, Daily driver
83scamp is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 09:34 PM
Naturally Aspirated
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
My Ride: CSX/CS/GLHS
Engine: 2.2
Induct: Turbo
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 7,667
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
     
Re: T1 piston set !

Some will say that the 'hyper' piston will be just fine at stock boost levels and as long as you never have any detonation. I think it's the same as saying they suck for use in a turbo motor and their longevity is questionable at best. But that topic is a genuine can of worms and has been the topic of many a discussion in the past. Those of us that know what its like and how easy it really is to bust an aftermarket cast piston will choose good used over an aftermarket cast I think every single time now. Otherwise we save our launch money for a set of forged, either Venolia or Wiseco...and there are two camps on that topic as well. I've used both and had plenty of boost to spare on either.

Here is what an aftermarket (Federal Mogul/Perfect Circle) piston looks like when it comes apart. There is an entire thread dedicated to carnage...we call it Carnage(ie) Hall
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...e-ie-hall.html


ILIKESHELBYS is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 10:17 PM
Super Pope

 
The Pope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Spokane WA
 
Induct: Turbo
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 10,115
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Images: 5
     
Re: T1 piston set !

I would swap a whole piston and rod from another 84-85 turbo engine before adding POS hyperplastic pistons. You really need to buy forged today. But a hone and ring job doesn't last for ever though and these engines are really too old not to get new pistons.
The Pope is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 03-02-2017, 10:25 PM
Level 3 Supporter
 
89TonaVa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portsmouth Va.
 
My Ride: 89 DaytonShelby TII
Engine: 2.2 Turbo FMIC
Induct: Turbo
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 2,547
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

I believe I have a set but one rod is shot ( spun a bearing). They were pulled from an engine I picked up a few years back.
T1 piston set !-tmp_31078-kimg0073-477112712.jpg

T1 piston set !-tmp_31078-kimg0072376953183.jpg
89TonaVa is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 03-03-2017, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
TD New Guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
 
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

thanks for the info guys, why does everyone say to change the rod aswell? cant you just put a diffrerent piston back on the same rod?
omni85 is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 03-03-2017, 07:05 AM
Level 1 Supporter
 
83scamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
 
My Ride: 83 Scamp GT
Engine: 2.2
Induct: N/A
1/4: 17.200

Posts: 2,479
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89TonaVa View Post
I believe I have a set but one rod is shot ( spun a bearing). They were pulled from an engine I picked up a few years back.
Attachment 220346

Attachment 220354
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those are 2.2 swirl head pistons. The dish diameter is too large for a bathtub head, and the valve notches give it away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omni85 View Post
thanks for the info guys, why does everyone say to change the rod aswell? cant you just put a diffrerent piston back on the same rod?
You can definitely reuse your rods, but being that they are pressed pins, you will have to have a shop with a rod heater do it. You can't just pound out the pins & shove them back in. The rods small end needs to be heated so the pins slide in and don't damage the rod or pin.

That's the advantage of full floating pins. They just slide into the rods & pistons, and are held in place with small circlips in the pistons.

83 Scamp GT COTM APRIL '14
89 Daytona ES turbo, Daily driver
83scamp is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 03-03-2017, 07:20 AM
Level 3 Supporter
 
89TonaVa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portsmouth Va.
 
My Ride: 89 DaytonShelby TII
Engine: 2.2 Turbo FMIC
Induct: Turbo
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 2,547
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

Well I tried. Was not sure what they were .That is why I posted the pick. seeing as how this engine has been messed with before. Are we sure he has a bath tub head. If he has a 782 head he may only need to replace one rod out of the set. I would have all rods in the set checked though. Omni check on the front of head. Insure that you do have a bath tub head still on there. 782 head will have it stamped on the front side of head I believe. Im not sure what the number would be for a bath tub head.

You can tune a Tona but you cant tune a fish !
89TonaVa is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 03-03-2017, 08:15 AM
Level 3 Supporter
 
4Daytonas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 30 mi NE.of Evansville In
 
My Ride: 84 Turbo Z, 91 Shelb
Engine: 2.2-2.5
Induct: Turbo
1/4: 0.000

Posts: 4,341
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

Quote:
Originally Posted by omni85 View Post
Hello peeps, I own a 1985 Omni GLH turbo 1 block and rods but not LW, i had some detonation and cracked number 1 piston, for now i want to just do a quick cheap rebuild so i can drive the car this summer and next winter build up a common block :) would someone here have any pistons for sale and are the T1 pistons same specs as T2? dish etc... i alreayd have a tune and want everything to work fine when its back together!
Check my ad I have a NEW set of press pin pistons for sale. They are 86 up swirl but everyone says not to switch. I have swirl pistons in ALL my 287 head engines and they work great!. My 2.5 has a bathtub head and I run 23 lbs boost with NO problems since I built it several years ago.They actually LOWER the compression a small amount so that's not a bad thing in a boosted engine.I also have a used set of T2 pistons for sale. Check my ad in parts for sale.
4Daytonas is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 03-03-2017, 08:15 AM
Level 1 Supporter
 
83scamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
 
My Ride: 83 Scamp GT
Engine: 2.2
Induct: N/A
1/4: 17.200

Posts: 2,479
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: T1 piston set !

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89TonaVa View Post
Well I tried. Was not sure what they were .That is why I posted the pick. seeing as how this engine has been messed with before. Are we sure he has a bath tub head. If he has a 782 head he may only need to replace one rod out of the set. I would have all rods in the set checked though. Omni check on the front of head. Insure that you do have a bath tub head still on there. 782 head will have it stamped on the front side of head I believe. Im not sure what the number would be for a bath tub head.
Never hurts to try.

But you do have a good point. IF this motor has been gone through before, it could be a later engine. Without pictures, at this point we are assuming based on the year of the vehicle. For 85, the correct head should be either a 445 or 287. It's hard to tell, because 85 was a transition year for a lot of stuff. The only real difference is the location & number of bosses on the front of the head for the A/C mount.
83scamp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more! forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome