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Carburetted and TBI Injected Feel free to discuss any subject that is specific to these cars, including but not limited to: modification, tuning, repair, parts replacement, identification and restoration. This is the place to talk about ALL-MOTOR performance and MPI conversions.

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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-10-2019 07:58 PM
INSATANSSEAT
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

Thank you! My friend Karl found one in a Chicago salvage yard two years ago. They crushed it complete(no one had pulled a single part) before he got down there to COMPLETELY strip the car for me. I wanted him to pull every FFV item so I could document it all. Maybe build a clone. R.I.P. FFV.
02-10-2019 07:17 PM
enduro74
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

You'd be hard press to find one. I think they produced just around 12,000 total and most where fleet vehicles. I know they where a pain in the ass to find certain parts for and most have probably been scrapped out and pillaged for the injectors before being crushed. I'm sure theyre are still a couple out there but finding them is another story. Probably owned by older people who rarely drive them and when they pass away their kids will send the car straight to the scrap yard. If i ever see one I'll certainly let you know. I looked real hard a few years back before I did my MPFI swap and came up empty
02-10-2019 01:37 PM
INSATANSSEAT
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

I don't know why, but I am still desperately looking for an FFV. Somebody has to save ONE of them. I can't find a single person that has a single one, though! They've mostly been junked and then scrapped. Since noone has any interest in the FFV other than to strip them of injectors, noone has messed around with trying to rig in an ethanol sensor in place of the methanol sensor and tune the SBEC for gas/E85.
12-23-2018 10:28 AM
enduro74
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

Looks like a Mopar part number. I would guess it's right but just so old that it doesn't show up. The fact that it came on non-american cars probably doesn't help either.

The Mexican cars did come with an injector which part number that isn't the same as any turbo cars where. PN:4554130

It was hypothesized that they flow less than the smallest turbo injectors which are 27pph. You'll have 34pph probably so if you find the car runs really rich especially under wide open throttle you might have to find some 27pph injectors and drop the fuel pressure down to get it to run the proper Air Fuel Ratio.

I found most of my info for this from Gary's site. The Dodge Garage and most of my wiring info came from MiniMopar Resources
12-16-2018 07:19 PM
dominicheim83 I got the MPFI sbec from a Facebook member of one of the group's I'm in. I was asking him for a turbo sbec for this project and he said "why I have the Mexican sbec?". He said he's had it for years planning on doing the conversion but never got to it. He was so happy someone was going use it he let me have it for $10. I can't seem to find the numbers anywhere in any database. #4516670. The number on the chip is 391. Any ideas where to look?
12-16-2018 11:37 AM
enduro74
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

I run the stock requlator that will regulate the pressure between 50 to 58ish PSI depending on engine vacuum I have one vacuum line run from the throttle body to the fuel PSI regulator and another line from the manifold to the MAP and that's it. I don't even run anything to the brake booster on my set-up. For you all you should have to add is the manifold to brake booster line and the connector on the brake booster should have additional nipples on it to connect HVAC and cruise vacuum lines

For timing advance I have mine set to 12* advanced. Set it with the engine up to operating temp and the coolant temp sensor unplugged. (The rad fan will come on when you unplug the sensor so keep your hands clear)

I have my blocks decked and heads milled so my timing is off. I set it to the retarded side which is 4-7 degrees normally. For street application you may be better off leaving it in the middle. Retarded you loose low end and gain top end. Advanced you gain top end and loose low end so it all goes back to application.

Where in the hell did you find a Mexican MPFI SMEC if I may ask? I looked and looked before I did my first conversion and could not find one to save my life.
12-16-2018 02:27 AM
dominicheim83 Here is what I have so far. I have a t2 1 piece, stock fuel rail, turbo distributor, larger than stock tb not sure what size it came in a box of parts, injector harness, and a Mexican MPFI sbec. I have aluminum turbo piping for CAI currently going to where charcoal canister was. Left overs from supercharging and blowing it up. I need the a turbo distributor wiring harness still but I hope that's it. Which vacuum system are you running and where do you set your timing and fuel pressure? I was playing with cam timings before car was put away for winter. I ended happy with the cam 6 advanced and 15 of timing at 41-42 psi fuel pressure. I also run a ported head with beehive 3.3's and pt lifters. I attached pic of current setup.
12-15-2018 08:29 PM
enduro74
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominicheim83 View Post
Did you ever finish it?If so any pics? I'm currently doing a 2.2 the same way. Would live all the help you can give.
What help do you need with your conversion? I run 2.2 and 2.5 N/A circle track cars that I've converted to multiport. Here's what I run.

-1 Piece T2 Intake with factory Fuel Rail, Injectors, & Injector Harness as well as the knock sensor and air charge temp sensor

-52mm Throttle Body (You'll want to stick with 46mm factory if you care about mileage) the 52mm come on v6 caravans and stuff like that. Mines off a 98

-Turbo computer (I have one car on an 87 Logic Module Set-up and another on an 89 SMEC) For best results you'll want to socket it and tune as you drive. The SMEC is much easier to tune than the LM because I can't get the program MPScan to data log anything with the LM set-up and the LM set-up has to have extra wires run to get it to work with the AIS motor unless you get one from a shelby car.

-Turbo Wiring Harness respective to the computer that I am running.

-Distributor can be off of any 2.2 or 2.5 turbo car they're all the same. (Possibly not the 16 valve engines but i doubt youll find one of those anyways)

-Cold Air ebay intake from an non-turbo 95-99 eclipse fits in just perfectly if you have a manual transmission. You have to get a true COLD air intake tho. If you get a short ram i'm not sure how well that will fit.

Your first step is going to be getting a computer and wiring harness. You have more work than I did because youll have to integrate your current harness with the turbo harness on my cars all I have to do is strip the wiring out for everything except what is needed to run the motor and the gauges. Use the pinouts on Minimopar.net to figure out what wires run what.

Once you strip down your turbo harness to just what you need then you'll be able to start integrating them together. This will take a weekend at least if your good with wiring. Maybe a couple if your not. The more creature comforts you have an want to keep (Ex. Cruise or AC) the longer it will take to integrate.

Once you have the harnesses integrate your pretty much done. All you have to do then is remove your old intake and install the new intake with the fuel rail. Body to engine ground strap goes on the right fuel rail bolt. The fuel lines will have to be hose clamped on. I double clamp the feed line on mine and haven't had an issue

The turbo distributor just pops right in. Do pay attention to the position of the distributor and put it back the same way. I would suggest timing it after you get it running.

The harness just basically is plug and play after you have everything installed. If done correctly you should be able to fire up the car and drive it at that point. I may have forgotten a step in there but I think i covered it all

Tried to post some pics but it wouldn't upload them
11-17-2018 08:01 PM
dominicheim83 Did you ever finish it?If so any pics? I'm currently doing a 2.2 the same way. Would live all the help you can give.
09-07-2011 02:49 PM
Mangelhaft
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

I am still on the lookout for a 2-piece intake, from a local yard. I had seen them in the past, but did not know what I was looking at. If I find one, my initial post will be amended as such, as well as I will be adding to it as this project progresses.
09-07-2011 02:41 PM
Vigo
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

The 2pc is vastly superior to the 1pc in all respects except price.

A member on this forum (Unaclocker) built a MPI rampage a long time ago and got 42mpg out of it. Of course, he had complete tuning ability (via Megasquirt) and probably a manual trans (efficiency, overdrive) along with a bit less weight, although i dont think the weight is much of an issue.
09-04-2011 02:40 AM
Mangelhaft
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

Vigo ---> Good points. I am hoping to find a two-piece intake manifold at one of the yards. From what I have come across during my research, the two-piece is much better than the log intake, and an improvement over the one-piece, slant intake. Power is not a concern: Increasing MPGs is. If all else fails, I could always swap the intake, throttle body and calibration chip back, if I have too many issues.
09-04-2011 02:17 AM
Vigo
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

The log intake is certainly NOT a better induction system than the tbi setup.. It just has a turbo to prop it up.

I would not say a stock 1pc manifold is 'better' than either tbi setup (your 85 has a different setup than mangelhaft's) in practice unless you can properly tune for it. Running the stock n/a MPI cal is a good start.

However, i did very simple mods to two tbi motors and calculated out (based on weight and trap speed) to be making more power than a stock MPI is rated at. So, do not expect miracles from bolting on and plugging in a 1pc intake setup. For someone who has a currently-running but un-tuned tbi, i would invest in the ability to tune before throwing parts at it. My most modded TBI was so far out of tune on the stock computer that taking out the thermostat resulted in a huge power gain (from fuel enrichment). A properly tuned tbi will make more power than a 1pc on a stock cal (even if it is the correct one)... even my UNproperly tuned one did. Food for thought.
09-03-2011 08:09 PM
EddieC1564
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

This is what I want to do with my 85 Plymouth Caravelle. Get rid of the TBI for a better induction system but don't need the turbo. I have most parts for the log turbo setup allready from a scrapped 84 T1 just not sure if the turbo is good.
09-03-2011 12:50 AM
Mangelhaft
Re: MPI Conversion by Mangelhaft

No pics, yet. I am still doing some light porting. Bolt-up is comming very soon.
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