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Timmay2 09-16-2006 07:29 PM

Why not AWD
 
Why not AWD ?

Ok i know this topic has been beat to death. But why doesnt it exist?

I know everyone tries to use a TRUE AWD setup.

But if the engien and trans are turned sideways... i see one axle coming out of each side of the transmission.

I call that my front and my rear driveshaft.

Now, you can probably source axle pieces and build something that will work for the front.. and for the rear use an intermediate shaft and get a driveshaft made that will fit into it and into a rear differential.. and...

WHY NOT!?

someone tell me

22dodge 09-16-2006 07:36 PM

so you want to put a FWD transmission into a rear wheel drive application? then the passenger side axle would drive the front axle and the driver side would run the rear axle. sounds great, be an inovator do it and let us all know how you did it.

turbovanman 09-16-2006 09:30 PM

If you could make that work, theres no way in hell that diff, tiny pinion and bearings could take that kind of load. Hell, I sheared off the pinion gear teeth drag racing my Minivan.

Best bet would be to find a RWD trans and a transfer case of some sort, or try to make a WRX setup work?

sillywabbit 09-16-2006 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman

Best bet would be to find a RWD trans and a transfer case of some sort, or try to make a WRX setup work?


That makes no sense at all. It's the trans itself that has the awd stuff in it on a WRX. What good would using a RWD trans do you? I won't go into the 10 other reasons a wrx setup wont work. (unless you use the engine also)

Listen, its no harder than doing a RWD conversion, in fact it's probably easier! If you want AWD, make an adapter plate and custom mount for an evo8 trans!! Thats the best way! For the rear, run leafs and an 8 3/4 or get creative and weld in a subframe with IRS. Any other way is just silly. The engines are already facing the best way for 4cyl awd!

If you don't want to use foregn parts and you are waiting for mopr to ever release a good awd system you can adapt, just sell the car. It's never going to happen.

turbovanman 09-16-2006 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmniGTI
That makes no sense at all. It's the trans itself that has the awd stuff in it on a WRX. What good would using a RWD trans do you? I won't go into the 10 other reasons a wrx setup wont work. (unless you use the engine also)

Listen, its no harder than doing a RWD conversion, in fact it's probably easier! If you want AWD, make an adapter plate and custom mount for an evo8 trans!! Thats the best way! For the rear, run leafs and an 8 3/4 or get creative and weld in a subframe with IRS. Any other way is just silly. The engines are already facing the best way for 4cyl awd!

If you don't want to use foregn parts and you are waiting for mopr to ever release a good awd system you can adapt, just sell the car. It's never going to happen.

What are you talkin about Willis. He said RWD setup, so why not adapt a WRX type setup? Anyhow, we could argue till were blue in the face but if he's got to fabricate then pretty well anything goes.

22dodge 09-17-2006 12:47 AM

just take an AWD mininvan and graft the parts into the inferior TD

Timmay2 09-17-2006 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22dodge
just take an AWD mininvan and graft the parts into the inferior TD


People said have tried that and the parts are too weak.. although no one has ever produced pictures of said setup in a car.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 22dodge
so you want to put a FWD transmission into a rear wheel drive application? then the passenger side axle would drive the front axle and the driver side would run the rear axle. sounds great, be an inovator do it and let us all know how you did it.

I certainly dont have enough time to play around with that.. just asking why no one else has tried it since people have gone far enough to do dual engines and a front end setup on the back of the car.. but no ones tried leaving the fwd trans and using an axle out each side stock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22dodge
If you could make that work, theres no way in hell that diff, tiny pinion and bearings could take that kind of load. Hell, I sheared off the pinion gear teeth drag racing my Minivan.

Take what kind of load? Either way the car weighs 3,000 lbs and is making 300hp, should be effectively the same work.. the orientation of the transmission shouldnt matter if its facing front or back. same power, similar weight, and an axle out each side???


Just curious as to why it hasnt been at least tried.. seems like it could be doable if you have some $ and time to play with.

turbovanman 09-17-2006 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmay2
Take what kind of load? Either way the car weighs 3,000 lbs and is making 300hp, should be effectively the same work.. the orientation of the transmission shouldnt matter if its facing front or back. same power, similar weight, and an axle out each side???


Just curious as to why it hasnt been at least tried.. seems like it could be doable if you have some $ and time to play with.

Thats my quote, :D

Add another driveaxle/transfer case setup and you add more load to the existing diff. Think about it, before, you had 2 tires to spin, now you have 4 using the same puny diff and the extra load of the transfer case. Can you say OH SNAP!

Dodge did build a prototype but never released it, if we could get pictures of that, damn.

I doubt alot of us have the many $1000's of dollars to make it work, not to mention the fab work. I know it would be neat but alot of racers are still cutting great 60 fts on FWD, :thumb:

RoadWarrior222 09-17-2006 02:25 PM

I hear tell that the A670 has the capability to bolt to the AWD transfer case. If so, that would possibly be a stronger setup, at least the A670 is known to survive a bit of power. However, the A670 goes with the 6G7x rather than the K turbos.

big_P 09-17-2006 02:46 PM

Nooo...the 604 has the ability to bolt onto the AWD transfer case.

The only difference between a 604 and an AWD 604 is the PTO unit that it is bolted to.


I'd love to remove the front axles from one of those vans and rip a RWD brakestand :D

sillywabbit 09-17-2006 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman
What are you talkin about Willis. He said RWD setup, so why not adapt a WRX type setup? Anyhow, we could argue till were blue in the face but if he's got to fabricate then pretty well anything goes.


The title of the thread is "why not AWD", No one said anything about RWD except you. :)

..and as for anything goes... yes, you can put an entire wrx drivetrain in, however, you cannot put a wrx trans/awd system in with a 2.2 (and expect to drive it) The positioning of the boxer engine is far forward, the 2.2 would stick out of the front rad support.

joker5k1 09-17-2006 05:32 PM

I'll admit the proposed set up sounded kind of goofy. But it could work with enough time and money, then again anything can work with enough time and money. Though I saw where someone had mentioned using an evo trans. I was wondering why no one had tried that yet. Or, for that matter any other of the AWD transmissions out there there are certainly enough people out there doing AWD racing now that one of those has to be tough enough to last. Just my opinion though.

-Joe

tkelly27 09-17-2006 07:13 PM

lol, no one has tried it because the people that want evos... get evos. If you want to do it, go right ahead, but it will be more expensive and less powerfull than if you had just gone out and gotten an AWD dsm and modded the engine and trans that it came with. If you hate the DSM or subie body style, it would probably be easier to take the body off of whatever TD you've got and stick it on the awd car. Less custom machining, and more opportunity to put in a cage. DSM engines are also cheaper for BIG power in the long run anyways.

Oh yeah, the diff is not designed to drive other differentials, it will break. Same HP I realize this, but they are going to be super long driveshafts, driving pieces with significanlty more inertia than a set of tires, which will put lots of loads on the output of the diff that it was not designed for.

Sorry for the negative post, but what kind of advantages other than traction (duh) are you going to gain from going with AWD?

22dodge 09-17-2006 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmay2
People said have tried that and the parts are too weak.. although no one has ever produced pictures of said setup in a car.




I certainly dont have enough time to play around with that.. just asking why no one else has tried it since people have gone far enough to do dual engines and a front end setup on the back of the car.. but no ones tried leaving the fwd trans and using an axle out each side stock.



Take what kind of load? Either way the car weighs 3,000 lbs and is making 300hp, should be effectively the same work.. the orientation of the transmission shouldnt matter if its facing front or back. same power, similar weight, and an axle out each side???


Just curious as to why it hasnt been at least tried.. seems like it could be doable if you have some $ and time to play with.

some how you have me stating a Quote that I NEVER SAID about the strength.

Instead of being an internet player, why don't you actually do some of these things. Come-on don't be a diode (oneway way user) try it, let us know how it worked for you or don't bother wasting people's time trying to come up with a solution you will never use.

turbovanman 09-17-2006 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmniGTI
The title of the thread is "why not AWD", No one said anything about RWD except you. :)

..and as for anything goes... yes, you can put an entire wrx drivetrain in, however, you cannot put a wrx trans/awd system in with a 2.2 (and expect to drive it) The positioning of the boxer engine is far forward, the 2.2 would stick out of the front rad support.


Actually he did, heres his quote-


Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmay2

But if the engien and trans are turned sideways... i see one axle coming out of each side of the transmission.

Hence my WRX thing. :p


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