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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I don't generally do videos since when I am working on a project I don't usually have my camcorder and also need both hands frequently.
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Right now I am stuck trying to find a crank sprocket with a wide enough set of "teeth" for the timing belt. The actual belt for the 2.4L will probably be plenty long, particularly if I can use the head mounted idler that shifts the belt toward the exhaust side of the head then it will come forward around the intermediate shaft. Two issues arise, (a) 2.4L belt is 28mm wide, 2.2/2.5L belts are 24/25mm wide. This can be resolved by simply finding a same length narrower belt (b) tooth count on the 2.2/2.5L components other than the TIII are: crank - 20 teeth, intermediate and cam - 40 teeth, 2.4L counts are: crank - 21 teeth, water pump - unknown, cams - 42 teeth. If I can find a 2.4L crank sprocket and it can be made to work, I have the cam sprockets and since I already committed to a head mounted distributor, the intermediate shaft count being 40 vs 42 teeth, will not bother the overall running, oil pump will be turning 5% faster.

If someone has a loose 2.4L crank sprocket or dimensions of one so I can figure out if it will work it will help.
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I found a belt that will work, James sent a reference for another, issue is the setup shoves the belt into the front of the head. Crank sprocket made like the 1988 square tooth one, but for a round tooth belt is what I need.
 

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Legendary Driver
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What's a k27? You drop the motor in and mate it to the stock trans. Numerous people have already done it. Rich Bryant as noted above and fwdperformance have all the parts needed.




Not that easy in a K27 as it works way better with an automatic than a 5 speed. FYI, the body reinforcement on the K27 runs well above where the K car manual transmission shifter attaches.

The 2.4L auto is a 41TE so needs a trans computer or a complete NGC system.
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
(a) K = body, 27 = style in this case convertible. The K27 body has a huge reinforcement up the center of the car making use of a 5 speed and it's shift cables a PITA. The shifter location is also very close to the dash center stack where the radio mounts on the G and J bodies.
(b) 2.0/2.4 block mostly will bolt to a 2.2/2.5 transaxle, however, the one bolt of the 4 that connect trans case to block that doesn't match is also one of the 4 for the front motor mount. On a turbo engine this is a special reinforced mount that was updated after the 2.2/2.5 engines were no longer in production. That bolt and the one below it go into the transaxle case, either clutch or converter depending. The remaining 2 bolts go into the front of the block right above the pan rail, no place on a 2.0/2.4 block for them.
(c) starter, 2.2/2.5 starter mounts on the back of the block, 2.0/2.4 on the front, the transaxle cases and block plates reflect this. To use a front location, the oil fitting on the 2.2/2.5 is in the way and the lower starter bolt and the upper front mount through bolt have a problem coexisting.
(d) right motor mount obviously is different
(e) and the biggest reason I do not have a 2.4L short block nor complete engine! As a result I would have to go find one that will fit the way I need it to, manifolds etc and then the electronics to run it and interface with my 1990 BCM coupled with the fact that it is my project and I prefer to do it my way.

The same goes for my truck, if I had a nickel for everyone who told me since that project started in 2010 to get an aftermarket EFI system instead of Ford's EEC-V system I might almost have been able to buy the two computers (engine and transmission) needed that at the time were $12-1500 each
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Ordered his intake cam driven distributor kit and his cap conversion parts so I can use a nice universal set of deep well plug connectors and right angle distributor connectors.

I already modified a distributor for reverse rotation and will build a harness for the conversion as it gets closer. The distributor reference and sync functions need to be reversed as the computer looks for the "windowed" vane to determine when to trigger #1 injector. If the sequence of vane pulses are not in the correct sequence between the two signals the computer will not "turn on".
 

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Soooooo excited!!!

If I ever did this conversion, I would be insanely fascinated to dyno the car before and after the swap and try and see exactly how much gains can be seen from the DOHC!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't horsepower on the 2.5 SOHC hit peak at like 4800 rpm or something? Feels like driving a diesel... hehe
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Since the engine in the car is a 1988 2.2L T2 with a modified computer it wouldn't be a good comparison. However, the current engine is running a 2 piece intake.
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I received the head mount distributor kit a couple of days ago. Rich Bryant has updated the design a bit and asked if I would mind posting some pictures.

The head adapter is grooved on both sides for the large O-ring due to a small goof in setting it up resulting in the second bare metal groove. He settled on an O-ring as a better seal than a gasket and it puts the adapter metal to metal on the head and bearing cap. The disc now has the drive pins made with it so the need to run screws through is no longer there. The pins are slightly off set as shown with the hacksaw blade straightedge. Once I have a chance to assemble it I will get some more pictures. Note that he even includes a new distributor O-ring.
Household hardware Wood Gas Circle Auto part
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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
Ok, I mounted it to the PT Cruiser turbo head to (a) show how it assembles and (b) see how much of a plug wire stretcher I need. Distributor has already been modified for reverse rotation with the exception of rotating the HEP plate. Head before changes, magnetic trigger for cam position sensor.
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Head with distributor drive disc in wrong position (remember the offset pins).
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Drive disc installed correctly but not tightened.
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Drive disc tightened and ready for adapter to be installed.
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Adapter attached to head and tightened, apparent misalignment is due to camera angle.
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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Now for the rest as that was a good place to stop uploading. The distributor that was previously modified according to Rich Bryant's instructions. This is pointing to the normal #1 position.
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Now, pointed to what will become #1 position with the HEP turned 180°
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Here is the way it looks in the assembled position.
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Looking from the transaxle side of the head.
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Anyone have a plug wire stretcher?
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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Now I have another little issue, the crank sprocket and cam sprockets. If I use the 2.5L crank sprocket it is a 20 tooth sprocket and the original intermediate shaft and cam sprockets are 40 teeth. I have the set of FWD adjustable cam sprockets that are 40 teeth also The issue is, the 2.4L head is longer than the 2.5L head so with even the 2.5L 24 or 25mm wide belt, it rubs the end of the head to the point the person I got the parts from had ground quite a bit off the belt end of the head. The belt he was going to use is barely long enough to reach and ends up running straight down from the intake cam sprocket to the intermediate shaft sprocket. The original routing of the 2.4L belt, from the intake sprocket, it doubles back over an idler, then angles forward over the water pump sprocket. I can do the same with the intermediate shaft sprocket, but, the idler is too far out from the head to properly run the belt over. If I reverse the intermediate sprocket it now lines up nicely, but the crank sprocket grooves aren't long enough so the belt rides up onto the ungrooved portion of the sprocket.

I obtained an idler and crank sprocket. Crank sprocket is 21 teeth which will wok well with the stock 2.4L 42 tooth cam sprockets and since I have gone to a head mounted distributor, the slight change in the ratio on the intermediate shaft will only affect the oil pump. The issue is the OD of the 2.5L crank snout vs the ID of the 2.4L sprocket. Crank snout is a press fit in a roughly 26mm bore, 2.4L sprocket has a nearly 30mm bore so I need a sleeve with about a 2mm wall thickness and a taller crank key. I may also need a spacer behind the sprocket to line it up with the cam sprockets (I do have a stock set of cam sprockets). Any ideas?
 

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It is a Gates number and so far I am not finding a lot of information on Gates timing belts, still looking.
If you know the true length, width, and type (IE: Ribbed, V, cogged, etc.), and actual width of each rib, if McMaster Carr does not carry 1 that size, they will make it custom. For same prices as if they stocked it. Had same issue recently switching my water pump over to elect. Based drive and then needed a 6 rib to use just Alt. on the crank
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I actually have a complete chart of Dayco timing belts by size and tooth count. Once you have the tooth style, spacing and width all that is needed is the length. Right now I am mocking up what I need and once I have that done I will find my length and order one.

I did find an interesting fact, the belts on the 2.2/2.5L are 24-25mm wide, the 2.4L is 28mm wide so I have the which do I use issue, if I have to use any of the 2.5L gears, I am limited to 25mm width, If I use the 2.4L gears, I can run the 28mm width.
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
After some further fitting, a trip to Pick-n-Pull in Virginia Beach and found a PT Cruiser with the engine on the ground. I tried pulling the balancer but broke one of the Chinesium bolts on the Northern Tool puller. I did get the rear timing cover and upper timing cover. I removed the right side engine support bracket (a pretty hefty casting) and removed the upper torque arm attachment from the upper torque arm in the car so I had that to use if I could. I then removed the timing gears from the cams and the four M6 and two M8 shoulder bolts that held the rear timing cover to the head block and mechanical automatic timing belt tensioner. I removed the remaining automatic tensioner bolt and got it also.

After cleaning everything, I started doing some trial fitting, part of the reason I got all of this was to find a way to run the DOHC 2.4L head on the 2.5L short block with the timing belt (a) having more wrap on the cam gears than the kit I had gotten with the Startus/Sebring head I was sold as an SRT4 setup (only the turbo and exhaust manifold were), (b) getting the belt covered for protection and safety and (c) to hopefully be able to use my present accessories (power steering, AC and alternator). The setup I had been sold the fellow had been trying to use on a 2.2L and could not get it to seal even using two head gaskets (don't even go there!). He had bought the timing gears from FWD Performance and had ground off a bunch of metal on the front face of the head. The setup is designed to place the timing belt in the same position as the standard 2.2/2.5L engines do and provides a nice pair of adjustable cam gears that are 40 tooth for the round tooth belt allowing the stock crank and intermediate shaft gears to be used. My concerns were it put the belt in very close to the head, had very little wrap on the cam gears and ran the drive side of the belt from the 2.4L cam gear to the intermediate shaft gear out in the open. The normal tensioner would barely go on as the belt seemed a bit short (I am using a 1989 2.5L common block).
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If I tried to use the normal 2.4L belt routing with the intermediate shaft gear replacing the water 2.4L water pump gear I end up with the belt and the right side engine support not playing well together.
Crankset Motor vehicle Bicycle part Auto part Machine

You can see where the 2.4L idler location is right in the middle of the engine support.

What I ended up doing was to position the engine so the horizontal portion of the stock 1989 J body mount was parallel to my garage floor (very carefully leveled when poured) then set the PT Cruiser support in place with the tensioner mounted and torquing it so it's top was also parallel. I sprayed some silver paint on the block face, took another of the mounting bolts and used a brass hammer to create a mark on the block face. After removing the PT support I was able to center punch and drill then tap to M10X1.5 a hole where the lower front PT support bolt goes.
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Note that I have a timing belt (too short) laid in there. I have decided that since I am using a head mounted distributor, I will carefully line up the intermediate shaft gear with the belt and use the 1989 gear. It will drive the shaft 5% faster, but since it is only driving the oil pump, it shouldn't hurt and may help. With the two holes, and a stack of washers on the lower bolt to make up for not having the 2.4L water pump I was able to get the support on for further fitting.
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The upper rear pilot has been removed and I am working on a way to modify the power steering pump bracket to clear the rear tensioner bolt and provide a location for an upper rear engine support bolt. I need to find another ZF pump bracket so I can build what I need.
 
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